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Question on video upconversion for LaserDisc...


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#21 of 77 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted March 27 2005 - 07:57 AM

Thanx, Rachael! I guess I will wait until the right ebay auction comes along and shoot for a S9 or X9. The 59 combined with the Mitsu's 3D comb filter gives an completely watchable picture (albeit a little soft in focus), and I have a grand total of 147 LDs in my library (many of which have been retired and/or archived due to unique supplimentary stuff, trailers, etc). Even if the 59 is not one of the top 5 players in the format, I do see it as being very respectable (and I understand the sound is second to none in LD land). Even when I do get a better player, the 59 will still have a home as a backup. For now, I will stay as I am until I find someone who is as compulsive with his toys as I, with a S9 or X9 to unload....
Peace... Derek

One sub to rumble them all. One sub to shake them. One sub to humble them all. And in the darkness break them.

Louvre attendant: Sacre bleu! ze frame on ze Mona Lisa broke and ze only one left iz too small. Andre, bring me ze scissors!

#22 of 77 OFFLINE   greg_t

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Posted March 27 2005 - 04:07 PM

That's what I did with my 79. It's a backup player. Like Racheal, I have a Pioneer Elite 53" HDTV. The Elite's have the same comb filter as the S9/X9. I hooked up my 79 via composite and the X9 via S-Video. I have two copies of Star Wars and played them both at the same time to compare. From the opening moment it was easy to see how much superior the X9 was. Sharper, more detailed image with far better black levels, color, and less noise. If you are really serious, try for an X9. If you don't want to spend that much cash, the S9 is your best bet. I have also sent you a private message.

#23 of 77 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted March 28 2005 - 09:05 AM

Derek, if you're budjet is short, the 97/95 alternative ain't half bad!
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#24 of 77 OFFLINE   Tony Kwong

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Posted March 28 2005 - 02:48 PM

Gregg lowen is getting rid of his Sony C2EX on ePay!
--/
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#25 of 77 OFFLINE   greg_t

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Posted March 28 2005 - 04:02 PM

I also saw he put up his whole DTS LD collection which he had worked on for years to build.

#26 of 77 OFFLINE   alan halvorson

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Posted March 28 2005 - 04:03 PM

Got me a mint, late-import LD-S9 with transformer I might want to unload for a bit cheaper than the quoted auctions. Don't seem to be playing many LDs lately and am not likely to. Drop a line if interested.
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- Napoleon XIV

#27 of 77 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted March 29 2005 - 02:21 AM

Alan, have you become an HD monger these 'ah dayz or what?Posted Image
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#28 of 77 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted April 06 2005 - 09:07 AM

Allan, Does the CLD-79 also fall into this category?
Peace... Derek

One sub to rumble them all. One sub to shake them. One sub to humble them all. And in the darkness break them.

Louvre attendant: Sacre bleu! ze frame on ze Mona Lisa broke and ze only one left iz too small. Andre, bring me ze scissors!

#29 of 77 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted April 07 2005 - 12:56 AM

I believe it does, as does the very similar CLD-D704. Any player with separate Y and C noise reduction works this way.
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#30 of 77 OFFLINE   ChristopherDAC

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Posted April 07 2005 - 03:07 AM

As I recall, one of the Pioneer Elite models has a serious design flaw, using a 2D comb filter to separate Y and C for noise reduction, recompositing, and then using a 3D filter to reseparate the recombined components for the S Video output. Does anyone know what that model is? because it would be one to avoid like the plague. I would like to know if, with "NR off" set, the 704 composite bypasses the comb filter. That would be a superior source chain.

#31 of 77 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted April 08 2005 - 02:22 AM

I think the only USA Elite model with a 3D filter was the CLD-99, and the Snell & Wilcox pattern on the Video Essentials LD that I use to test LD performance would have revealed something like that. Perhaps one of the DVL machines?
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#32 of 77 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted April 08 2005 - 03:38 AM

Phil, later versions of the LD-S2 had a 3-D comb filter. I'd bet that the LD-S2 is the player with the design flaw and it's stille a darn good player. They made the LD-S2 for about 10 years and the design evolved some.

From LD discusions over at AVS, I seem to recall that both the CLD's 95 & 97 recombine the chroma and luma to make the composite output. Some folks said that diminished the composite output but the composite output of this pair is stille much better than the latter CLD's 79/99. I'd take a 95/97 over a 79/99 any day of the week, all eight. Posted Image Posted Image
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#33 of 77 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted April 08 2005 - 03:52 AM

But they are not USA Elite players.
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#34 of 77 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted April 08 2005 - 04:05 AM

Phil, the LD-S2 was the top-of-the-line Elite player from about 1987-97. The Japanese equivalent is the LD-X2.
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#35 of 77 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted April 11 2005 - 05:38 AM

Phillip, AFAIK, the CLD-59 has the same comb filter (3 line digital) as the 79 and 704. So, would I be too far off base to suggest that the 59 also does this (and that my percieved PQ improvement by using composite is imagined)?
Peace... Derek

One sub to rumble them all. One sub to shake them. One sub to humble them all. And in the darkness break them.

Louvre attendant: Sacre bleu! ze frame on ze Mona Lisa broke and ze only one left iz too small. Andre, bring me ze scissors!

#36 of 77 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted April 11 2005 - 05:50 AM

Derek, I think the 59's conb filter is 2-line. It's not as good as the 79/704's.
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#37 of 77 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted April 11 2005 - 06:06 AM

Rachael,

According to a comparison grid published by Pioneer, the 59 does indeed have a 3-line (is that a misprint)? I am bidding on a CLD-79 right now at a fantastic price, and the 59 will become a backup player (or dedicated CD player, as it's audio section is fantastic - depends on how well the 79 compares).
Posted Image
Peace... Derek

One sub to rumble them all. One sub to shake them. One sub to humble them all. And in the darkness break them.

Louvre attendant: Sacre bleu! ze frame on ze Mona Lisa broke and ze only one left iz too small. Andre, bring me ze scissors!

#38 of 77 OFFLINE   Rachael B

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Posted April 11 2005 - 06:21 AM

Derek, it proably isn't a misprint, but the 79's is better. I've owned both. I stille have a 59 but it's on extended loan to my mom as of late. Neither's comb filter is too important these a dayz. You're gonna use composite out of both of these players in nearly all situations, or should...
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#39 of 77 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted April 11 2005 - 08:34 AM

What Rachael said. Comb filter quality is largely irrelevant these days. The 59/606 didn't have the noise reduction that the 79/704 had. I don't know about comb filters, it doesn't really matter unless you're using an old NTSC set.
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#40 of 77 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted April 11 2005 - 08:36 AM

Or a Philips display.. Really poor 3 line comb filters.




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