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Denon 3805 and the EX flag


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10 replies to this topic

#1 of 11 OFFLINE   CraigVH

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Posted February 22 2005 - 05:36 AM

Hi All,

My Denon 3805 doesn't seem to be recognizing the DD EX flag and I'm wondering what I've set up wrong.

I'm using LOTR ROTK which as I understand is properly flagged. Setup is:

- 3805 set to auto input mode
- PLIIx Cinema over DD
- Flag detection on

When I play the DVD I get the 5 lights on the left side of the 3805 display indicating the 5 input channels and the 7 lights on the right side of the display indicating PLIIx is active. All channels have sound.

However, When I hit "On Screen", there is no "Flag" field. Per the manual, the flag field is present when a flag is dectected and should read either matrix or discrete.

Also, the front display never says DD EX with a flagged movie, it always says Dolby D + PLIIx C(unless I manually set the surround back channels Matrix On and then it always says EX regardless of input type which indicates its still not using the flag).

Questions:

Should all DVD players pass this flag? I've got a Samsung P721. Do I have a setting wrong?

If a flag is detected, would the main display show Dolby D EX or somesuch?

Thanks!!

:-)

#2 of 11 OFFLINE   Dave Nelms

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Posted February 23 2005 - 03:30 AM

I don't have the Denon but perhaps setting the Denon to the DD mode as it's primary choice in the set up menu. This may be what it needs to triger the DD ex. Just a thougt.

And the DVD player should pass the signal through the digutal out.

#3 of 11 OFFLINE   David Judah

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Posted February 23 2005 - 03:57 AM

Yes, all DVD players should pass the flag and you obviously have it set right if it's picking up the DD signal.

As far as what the receiver displays when a flag is detected, it looks like you have it set to overlay DPL IIx. When you turn the Matrix On it is just forcing it into a SB decoding mode. It should also have an Auto setting so it will only go into EX when a flag is detected.

I don't have that receiver, but I've played around with one. In the surround paramters there is a "SB CH OUT." Have you tried different settings for that? There's also an Auto Surround Mode in the menu that will store the surround mode for multi-channel signals.

DJ

Lecktor: Then how did you catch me?
Graham: You had disadvantages.
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Graham: You're insane.

#4 of 11 OFFLINE   CraigVH

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Posted February 23 2005 - 06:17 AM

"It should also have an Auto setting so it will only go into EX when a flag is detected."

Yes, it's called ADFM which I do have turned on...

"in the surround paramters there is a "SB CH OUT." Have you tried different settings for that?"

Yes, and this is where I would have expected to see some sort of auto mode but its not here. The options are Off, NON MTRX, MTRX ON, ES MTRX, ES DSCRT, PL IIx Cinema, PL IIx Music

I would have expected this SB OUT setting to automatically change to MTRX ON when a DD EX flag is dectected but that doesn't seem to be happening. I have to manually turn it on.

Maybe I'll try a few more DVD's - I only had LOTR on hand so I have to go rent different ones that are flagged.

Thanks :-)

#5 of 11 OFFLINE   David Judah

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Posted February 23 2005 - 06:59 AM

If I remember correctly the ADFM wasn't what it appeared to be--it was for some future encoding that was to become available. You had to turn it off for it to send info. to the SB channel. You might double check in the manual.

DJ

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Graham: You had disadvantages.
Lecktor: What disadvantages?
Graham: You're insane.

#6 of 11 OFFLINE   CraigVH

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Posted February 23 2005 - 07:17 AM

Ok, that's worth a shot - I'll try it out tonight.

#7 of 11 OFFLINE   Ryan Leemhuis

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Posted February 23 2005 - 10:39 AM

can anyone confirm this for me. I am confused about all this "overlaying" going on with PLIIx or something liek that. Is this just to get 7 matrixed channels out of 6? Secondly is PLIIx just matrixed stereo in to 7 channels? or it is 6? Just wondering why you want to overlay DTS with PLIIx

#8 of 11 OFFLINE   CraigVH

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Posted February 23 2005 - 10:52 AM

hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/feature-prologic-iix-3-2004.html

All explained here with charts etc...

#9 of 11 OFFLINE   David Judah

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Posted February 23 2005 - 11:05 AM

Quote:
Just wondering why you want to overlay DTS with PLIIx

If you want to utilize a 6 or 7 speaker set-up with a 5 channel soundtrack(DTS or Dolby). Results will vary depending on the soundtrack. Alot of manufacturers have their own proprietary method, but Dolby is considered one of the best(along with Logic 7), and it is the most common across alot of different brands.

DJ

Lecktor: Then how did you catch me?
Graham: You had disadvantages.
Lecktor: What disadvantages?
Graham: You're insane.

#10 of 11 OFFLINE   Shiu

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Posted February 23 2005 - 12:24 PM

I do know that it picks up the EX flag automatically on many 5.1Ex movies, just not sure about ROTK because I usually watch my LOTR DVDs in DTS6.1. I'll try it this weekend and let you know.

#11 of 11 OFFLINE   CraigVH

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Posted February 24 2005 - 03:49 AM

Turns out my problem was my LOTR DVD. It's the full screen version (borrowed - not mine!!) which either isn't flagged is done incorrectly. At any rate, my 3805 won't recognize it.

I put in Finding Nemo and viola - everything started working.

Just for others who may be reading this thread who had the same question, here is the behavior of my 3805 when an EX flag is detected:

When an EX flag is detected, the following things occur:

1. After hitting On Screen, the "flag" field is present and says Matrix
2. The SB light will be lit on the input lights on the left side of the display
3. Hitting the Surround Back button on the remote will simply display AFDM ON and you will not be able to toggle between SB modes - ADFM will override it.
4. As far as what the display says, if you have your SB speakers set to 2 it will default to Dolby D + PL IIx. If you have your SB speakers set to 1, it will default to Dolby D EX.
5. For the output lights on the right side of the display, this will also depend on the number of speakers you have your SB set to. If SB is set to 2 speakers, you will see 2 back channel lights (both SBL and SBR channels lit since PL IIx is forced active). If SB is set to 1 speaker, you will only see 1 back channel light (only the SB light lit since DD EX is forced active).

I haven't tried a DTS flagged DVD yet so I'm not sure what that will do but I'm sure the behavior will be similar but with DTS info displayed.

Thanks everyone!!