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SVS Planning Full Range Speakers


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55 replies to this topic

#1 of 56 Richard Burzynski

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Posted December 15 2004 - 02:48 PM

Longtime member, occasional poster chiming in here.

"Still further into 2005 (assuming things all work out as we'd like)? Just what's probably THE most eagerly awaited thing since the SV Subwoofer: an SV Speaker. Specifically, a line of "full range" speakers which will perfectly mate to one of our subwoofers. As a package. Something you can array around your room and know it'll match your need for accurate, powerful and natural sound, without breaking the bank. Of course you know we'll avoid silly "solutions looking for problems" when it comes to features, but you know, too, that since these will be SVSs they'll trounce far more expensive speakers, look simple and elegant, and be offered in an array of finishes."

After reading the above and knowing how Tom feels about "full range" speakers I am sure that he is having some fun with how the information above is being phrased - that's why full range is in quotes, also he means that they will be full range when mated to one of the company's subs. Also, it isn't all that easy to take towers and "array them around your room" as is stated above. They will almost certainly be bookshelf monitors.

Over the years, there have MANY discussions about full range towers and powered sub towers and TV has always said that is NOT the way to do bass in his opinion. He is a FIRM believer in setting the speaker to small (even if it's a tower) and redirecting all bass to sub/s.

There was a guy named Bob a few years ago who used to own Def Tech powered towers and would always argue w/ Tom about this topic. Tom was always clear on how he feels.

Rich B.

#2 of 56 Richard Burzynski

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Posted December 16 2004 - 03:53 AM

Eric:

The different cabinet size would affect the sonics of your center speaker, but the largest contributor to its "different" sound is probably acoustic-related. The center speaker's horizontal layout, as well as its placement (on or near TV) usually has greatest affect on how it sounds.

Rich B.

#3 of 56 Tom Vodhanel

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Posted January 23 2005 - 01:25 PM

>>>If I remember correctly Tom runs Klip refs and I don't know what Ron runs.<<<

I ran the big KLF30s a while back. Been running my own designs for a few years now. As mentioned, large ribbons can be found here and there in my home..Posted Image

Don't expect the first speaker offerings from SVS to be active 6-7 foot tall ribbons of course...

Tom V.
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#4 of 56 Kevin C Brown

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Posted December 13 2004 - 12:18 PM

Depends on how you define "full range". To me, full range is -3 dB to 30 Hz, and that's not that difficult.

Just mains, or an entire 5.1 or 7.1 system? Prices? Direct radiators, bipolars, dipoles, switchables (for surrounds/rears)? If 5.1/7.1, Hopefully not the common (bad) woofer-tweeter-woofer center speaker design that gives you lobing as you go off-axis from the center. (Give me a 2 and a half way center design, or a woofer-(stacked tweeter over midrange)-woofer design! Posted Image ) SVS subs are made here, would SVS speakers too? They are so good at subs, hopefully they wouldn't even think about doing speakers unless they could maintain that level of quality, price, and performance there too. Posted Image
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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#5 of 56 Kevin C Brown

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Posted December 14 2004 - 12:10 PM

I would also hope for at least two models at each spot. Main L & R, center, and surrounds/rears. Choice is always a good thing. Some people like bookshelf speakers, some like floorstanders, some want to spend more on a center (can carry up to 70% of a movie soundtrack), some less (people who listen to more 2 ch music than movies), etc.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...

#6 of 56 Kevin C Brown

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Posted December 17 2004 - 07:26 PM

David- Maybe other people define "full range" differently than you do? Posted Image

I define full range as -3 dB to 30 Hz for a reason: there is not a lot of content in music below 40 Hz.

Plus, to really design a speaker to -3 dB at 20 Hz with good quality bass and low distortion, I would think requires a powered subwoofer in the speaker, and I personally do not want that. The best place for low frequency sound generation in a room is usually not the same place as where your main speakers should be located.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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#7 of 56 Kevin C Brown

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Posted December 18 2004 - 06:21 PM

DVDs go down to at least 10 Hz. So a full range speaker has to go to 10 Hz? Posted Image SACD and DVD-A can go to 50 kHz too, but most speakers don't go that high either.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...

#8 of 56 Kevin C Brown

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Posted January 21 2005 - 12:20 PM

Me want domes. Not a big fan of horns. Don't know enough about ribbons. Be nice if they could push break up to beyond 22 kHz if it's a metal dome.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...

#9 of 56 Dan Lindley

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Posted December 26 2004 - 01:33 PM

FWIW, I kinda like "Made in the USA" from SVS. If you can stick to it, that would be great.

Not usually a sentimentalist along these lines, but from you, it rings true. Keep it up.

Dan
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#10 of 56 RichardH

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Posted December 18 2004 - 07:08 AM

Personally, I'm hoping they also have a line of nice bookshelf speakers that you could get 5 of for a perfectly matched surround experience. I don't listen at reference level, and I would rather have 5 speakers that did 80 Hz and up and spend more to get the PC-Ultra, rather than have a wimpier sub and full range speakers all around.

Plus, how about making a model w/ sealed design w/ a -3 dB point right at 80 Hz ?? THX *Ahem*.... Of course, SVS wouldn't pay for THX badging, but all of us in the know would know =)

I don't think it would happen (at least not right away), but I would also love to see powered speakers (bi-amped, fully active), but those would probably have to be bookshelf design. Imagine getting a decent preamp, like that Outlaw model, 5 powered bookshelf SVS speakers and a PC-Ultra. Balanced line runs to all the speakers (you'd need a balancing device for most consumer preamps); totally clean, no passive crossovers, amazing sound.

#11 of 56 SVS-Ron

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Posted December 17 2004 - 04:56 AM

All,

We sure appreciate your comments. SVS has a major "Come-to-(insert deity of choice here)-meeting" in January to hash out much what's already accomplished in this task, and the far longer list of things not yet completed.

I promise all your input will help us make final choices and move ahead. There are some firm ideas already in place, and reams of planning and research results underway as I write this. The world's best instrumentation has warmed up and we're adding more, so we can do more, in the weeks and months ahead.

In some ways, designing full range speakers (a broad term refereing to a range of sizes of course), makes producing world-class subwoofers look like walk in the park. We will not chose to do this because it's easy, rather, because it IS hard. We know other OEMs work hard, we are working harder, and smarter. There's no choice if it's going to be an SVS. It will be better than what was/is or we won't sell it. Old stuff if you have followed us long.

And if you read our News Page update, it's not like we're taking a rest in the subwoofer world either. The competition only THINKS they have it hard now, trying to keep up.

One note given some hand-wringing we've seen of late: We're not expanding our product lines to gain sympathy, we're not suffering (working 100hrs/week doesn't count... we love it, really) and we're not poor... though this is the wrong business to get rich in. We're expanding because we can, and believe deeply that to prosper in the future we have to provide more and better products for customers. Continuously. Simple to say of course. We have still better products coming precisely as a way of giving more back to the people that made us the hottest audio brand on the Web. There's no charity here, making the best possible stuff for customers is a business decision.

And we're not happy with "just a bit better". We strive to make things better by every objective, design and material aspect known, at every given price point. We're building our stuff in the USA... hell, we're exporting to China (our most recent Ohio factory employee was working for minimum wage at Wal-Mart when we recruited him) and it's impossible not to have a sense of pride in that. We can't be sure we'll always build everything here, but you can bet that's always our first inclination, even if it means we make less money (actually it always means this). We know this is a bit old-fashioned, and many don't care about it at all, but it fits this recap of where were going.

2005 promises to be an exciting year at SVS. Again, thanks for the input. We didn't start this thread of course, but you can be sure we're all reading it ;^) To the maelstrom of activity churning at our two Ohio facilities and offices elsewhere you can be sure what's said here and elsewhere will be dropped in, gestated, and sure to come out in ways that will seem familiar, yet we hope, surprise some too.

All the best this holiday season from everyone at SVS.

Ron Stimpson

#12 of 56 SVS-Ron

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Posted December 19 2004 - 02:55 AM

Well, just to be even more clear RE what we mean when SVS says it:

"Full range" is a sort of blanket term that is by nature a bit of a misnomer. NO speaker (well, nearly none) are truly "full range". Generally speaking, when we say it, we mean speakers that could be used to listen to movie or music soundtracks, with or without a subwoofer. Use without a sub will clearly not cover the practical extent of all the lowest octaves. To what degree you need a subwoofer to capture the lowest octaves will depend on a number of factors such as size, price, driver configuration, and design goals.

It's not inconceivable that SVS would introduce a "full range" speaker that needs no subwoofer, but clearly we're big believers in that technology.

Further into our development and subsequent roll-out we'll of course define entries into the market with more descriptive terms such as "bookshelf", "tower", "center" etc etc. For the time being we're going to "fuzz" what we mean to allow lots of flexibility. "Full range" will simply cover anything we sell that isn't a subwoofer.

Hmmm. I guess I could have just kept to that last line ;^)

Ron

#13 of 56 SVS-Ron

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Posted December 20 2004 - 01:52 AM

Hey guys this is SVS.

We're not famous for producing speakers that cost MORE (than the proverbial "other guys"), for a given level of performance are we? ;^)

You can rest assured we're not changing company philosophy of giving you more performance for less money just because our products might be singing a bit higher up in the audible frequency range.

Don't expect us to debut crazy expensive speakers at the outset in other words.

Ron

#14 of 56 SVS-Ron

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Posted December 21 2004 - 12:03 AM

Right,

There are some fantastic marks on the wall already. You can be sure we take them very seriously.

And "package pricing" is actually going to be one word in our lexicon.

Ron

#15 of 56 SVS-Ron

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Posted January 19 2005 - 02:40 PM

Ken,

Could do anything. Right-o.

And expect the capability and technology to ratchet up as you move up the package offerings down the road. I know about some stuff flowing into the R/D shop right now that would make you cry if you could lay hands on it today. The idea of kids in a candy store comes to mind.

Just at their shop two days ago and I looked in one storage closet and there was about 100 different high end tweeters and mid-ranges. And we never get one. Two. One to beat on till it self-destructs (I suppose that's a bit of a non-linear statement), the other to be nicer to and learn a bit more from.

Tom has indeed used all manner of Klipsch speakers in the past but for some time he's had some rather impressive 6' tall ribbons with SVS bass modules all snugged together, you know the sort of thing you run if you are running an R/D operation ;^)

In the last few years I've had Polks, JBL, Warfedale, Harmon Kardon, Swan, Sony, Bose (shudder... they make good powered bookshelf speakers you know) hell even those "Optimus" open tweater speakers that Tom Nousaine loved so much a while back come thru my various systems. At the moment I've got the well-regarded Ascend CBM-170's in one HT too. Great affordable stuff all of it.

So you can bet we take quite seriously the fact that the market is simply polluted with perfectly adequate main speakers. It's a much thicker product pool than the one populated by good affordable subwoofers to be sure.

Ron

#16 of 56 SVS-Ron

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Posted February 07 2005 - 04:21 AM

Chuck,

We can't say for sure yet except that this train is indeed moving.

All Directorates have their marching orders but till we make a bit more progress in several areas we can't be more specific on dates. It's not a "we know but we can't tell" thing. We just don't know yet, too much work remains.

Unless something gets in the way however you should at least be able to count on another brand of main speaker under your Christmas tree though.

If we're fairly certain to be ready by a certain time you can bet we'll not be shy about announcing what we can.

Ron

#17 of 56 David Ruiz

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Posted December 17 2004 - 02:48 PM

I think a lot of people are confused by what "Full-Range" means. I've seen already two posts, maybe more, where people claim that "full-range" consists of 30hz and above, but these wouldn't be full-range at all. Full-range consists of 20hz-20khz, and the only way that I could think of, to do this, would to be have big enough drivers to go down this deep.

They definitely wouldn't be bookshelf speakers, as there is no possible way it could effectively do 20hz sound. It would have to be a tower speaker. I have all the room in the world, as my room is massive. I say, bring them on! The bigger the better!

#18 of 56 David Ruiz

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Posted December 17 2004 - 09:43 PM

Quote:
Maybe other people define "full range" differently than you do?

But I thought that "full range" implies just that: The full rage of audio. DVDs are encoded with 20hz - 20khz audio, in each of the five channels, except for the subwoofer channel, which constantly goes below that in the latest blockbuster. To say that a speaker that only goes down to 30hz is "full range" totally goes against what that statement means, as it isn't capable of playing the "full range" of audio channels that DVDs are encoded with.

#19 of 56 Eric Hargrove

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Posted December 17 2004 - 12:19 PM

I guess I am the only person bummed out by this news. I did not think was going to happen and went out and purchased a Polk Lsi setup. Not that there is anything wrong with these, they are very nice speakers at their price point. I just believe SVS will raise the bar which will tempt me to buy these.

#20 of 56 Evan M.

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Posted December 20 2004 - 02:46 AM

Boy, this is great news....and I don't even own an SVS.....someday hopefully.... I am sure they will develop something to compete price wise with the other internet companies such as Rocket, Axiom, Ascend, etc..... But of course in true SVS fashion they will do whatever possible to "best" them....and I'm sure they will or they wouldn't put their name on it. I LOVE COMPETITION!! The consumer almost always wins!