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Carnivale (Season 2)...


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#21 of 500 Adrian P

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Posted January 11 2005 - 07:42 AM

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Also, do not forget about the tattooed man (Sophie's father?) and how he fits in.


I am still puzzled by that guy. He is in quite a few of the dream sequences so he must be an important piece of the puzzle.

#22 of 500 Quentin

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Posted January 11 2005 - 03:20 PM

I don't know that management IS to be believed. So, I don't yet buy that he was/is the Russian, and I don't buy that Scudder is evil.

#23 of 500 SarahG

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Posted January 12 2005 - 03:27 AM

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I love the "ride" of this show. I will continue to come up with theories, but I will NOT be sure of anything.Also, do not forget about the tattooed man (Sophie's father?) and how he fits in.


I love the "ride" of the show too -- that's a good way to describe it.

I rewatched this episode last night -- and curious about the significance of the "dream" or "flash of vision" or even...could it be "premonition" when Brother Justin is at his tree (before he actually finds it) and is face to face with the tattoo man? What does that signify I wonder?
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#24 of 500 SarahG

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Posted January 12 2005 - 09:37 AM

I think it's totally conceivable. Afterall, didn't Samson basically tell us in his opening monologue that Ben is the "most unlikeliest of saviours" or something?

LOVED that part -- the opening. Awesome way they open the seasons. Posted Image
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#25 of 500 Mark Turetsky

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Posted January 12 2005 - 10:04 AM

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I think it's totally conceivable. Afterall, didn't Samson basically tell us in his opening monologue that Ben is the "most unlikeliest of saviours" or something?


He didn't specify it was Ben.

#26 of 500 Joshua_W

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Posted January 12 2005 - 06:53 PM

Yeah, it was implied it was Ben, but he didn't come right out and state it, so I think we're meant to assume he meant Ben. It could be intentional misdirection, though.

#27 of 500 Joshua_W

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Posted January 12 2005 - 06:59 PM

Here's an interesting thought about Ben and Scudder --
they could be Merovingians, who carry the bloodline of Christ. Since we have involvement of a group claiming to be Templars, this could be a distinct possibility. Also, there was a reference to Scudder's "holy blood."


Just my speculation, but spoilered just in case.

#28 of 500 JonZ

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Posted January 13 2005 - 12:36 AM

Nice call.

Anyone interested in that subjectTheres a coupel good books on that subject - I'll spoiler not to give anything away...

"Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and "The Messianic Legacy"


#29 of 500 Jean D

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Posted January 13 2005 - 12:48 AM

I dont think Ben is evil. his power he has would be considered a good power, not an evil one. Giving/repairing life while draining the life force of other living things becuse it would be used out of compassion.

Is it to be believed that Scutter has the same power as Ben?

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#30 of 500 Adrian P

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Posted January 13 2005 - 03:28 AM

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Is it to be believed that Scutter has the same power as Ben?


Yes. Ben tries to commit suicide in near the end of season 1 by slicing his neck with a knife. Scutter appears and heals his neck and says something like "it is not your time..."

#31 of 500 Mark Turetsky

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Posted January 13 2005 - 03:33 AM

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Just because we haven't seen Ben's power manifest itself in a purely evil way yet doesn't mean it couldn't happen. There's also the negative aspect to his healing power, which enables him to rob "life force" from once source (plant or animal). Who's to say that he necessarily needs to direct that robbed force towards a healing power ?


Not to mention that he can essentially use his power to decide who lives and who dies... Don't forget we don't know the details around the murder that he was imprisoned for, not to mention he used his power for just that when he killed Lodz to save Ruthie. In Ben's mind, he considered the taking of a life to save another an evil thing, that it "wasn't his place."
Quote:
Also, I saw it elsewhere, but didn't see it here... Now that we've been told that Management is the Russian, how likely is it that he's Justin and his sister's father (rememeber, they're Russian too) ?

Yeah, that also popped into my mind. It would make sense, considering we're pretty sure Scudder is Ben's father.

#32 of 500 Eric F

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Posted January 13 2005 - 05:51 AM

I think the whole point of Mgt is to show that there is a very fine line between good and evil, and everyone makes their own choice.

So, if Ben has to kill a few people to save millions, then that's his choice. Mgt says as much.

#33 of 500 Mark Turetsky

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Posted January 13 2005 - 06:07 AM

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What's everyone think of the new intro ? Definitely some of the symbology of the original intro (tarot cards), but there's some new stuff too. Anyone care to take a crack at deciphering it ?

What new intro?

#34 of 500 Eric F

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Posted January 13 2005 - 06:27 AM

Are there new tarot cards? I was watching for it, but didn't notice.

#35 of 500 Peter McM

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Posted January 13 2005 - 08:49 AM

The sequence of images in the new intro is a bit different.

Also--anybody else notice that Gecko and the Siamese twins are gone?
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#36 of 500 TravisR

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Posted January 13 2005 - 10:39 AM

Are they gone or did they just not appear this episode? They appeared infrequently last year too.

#37 of 500 RobertW

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Posted January 13 2005 - 01:23 PM

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Is it to be believed that Scutter has the same power as Ben?


he did leave the whole mining town a ghost town. whether some aspect or result of draining life force, or something else, we don't know.

#38 of 500 Mark Turetsky

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Posted January 14 2005 - 12:24 AM

There's also a slight spoiler in the commentary for the second episode on DVD. Knauf says "Boy, those tarot cards sure take a licking," referring to their having miraculously survived the fire.
Still no answer to what exactly the deal was between Apollonia and Sophie. If you'll recall, Appy had a conversation with Lodz where Lodz responded "She's the one? How long have you known" right before Appy starts the fire. Considering both people involved in that conversation are now dead, it looks like it'll remain a mystery. Another thing to consider is that when Apollonia mysteriously talks to Ben outside of her trailer, she tells him "You're the one." Is this the same "one" she later refers to Sophie as being?

#39 of 500 Adrian P

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Posted January 14 2005 - 03:51 AM

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Still no answer to what exactly the deal was between Apollonia and Sophie. If you'll recall, Appy had a conversation with Lodz where Lodz responded "She's the one? How long have you known" right before Appy starts the fire. Considering both people involved in that conversation are now dead, it looks like it'll remain a mystery. Another thing to consider is that when Apollonia mysteriously talks to Ben outside of her trailer, she tells him "You're the one." Is this the same "one" she later refers to Sophie as being?


Remeber the part in season one where Sophie sees the vision of her mom getting raped by the tattoo man? She thinks that is her father... If so, maybe he has some kind of power and passed it on to Sophie thus Apollonia tells Lodzs "She's the one".

#40 of 500 Jeff Gatie

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Posted January 14 2005 - 04:29 AM

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Anyone think the "false sun explod[ing] over Trinity" directly ties into the Manhattan Project ?

I think it is quite explicit in it's meaning. Not too many "false suns over Trinity" in history besides the Manhattan Project. Plus, the vision that Ben had last episode was of the tower exploding at the Trinity test site. Now whether the story links into the actual Project remains to be seen.

Hmmm, who'll play Oppenheimer?


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