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$400 Sub Face-off: SVS PB10-ISD Takes On a Few Competitors


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46 replies to this topic

#1 of 47 OFFLINE   Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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Posted January 06 2005 - 11:22 AM


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#2 of 47 OFFLINE   Craig Chase

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Posted January 06 2005 - 11:35 AM

Wayne, Excellent review ... And for those on a budget, the JBL is actually available from Onecall.com for $199 ... and its big brother, the EP-250 (12 inch driver, 250 watt amp) is available at Onecall.com for $264.... Wayne, VERY well thought out ... excellent descriptions, and cool pictures !
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#3 of 47 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted January 06 2005 - 12:05 PM

Posted Image very nice review.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
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#4 of 47 OFFLINE   Jason Dalton

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Posted January 06 2005 - 12:12 PM

Wow, very good review! Thanks Wayne!

#5 of 47 OFFLINE   Matt_Smi

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Posted January 06 2005 - 12:18 PM

Great comparison Wayne! Really enjoyed reading it and once again just made me feel better about having discovered this forum and how much greater of a value internet direct companies like SVS, HSU, Axiom and Ascend for example provide over your common CC and BB companies. Also very interesting find about the PB10 and how running it in a 25Hz tune made in more musical.

#6 of 47 OFFLINE   Adil M

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Posted January 06 2005 - 01:28 PM

Let's remember shipping is $40 on the SVS bringing it closer to the ~$500 mark (470). Also, the 3 year vs 5 yr warranty. Velodyne and Infinity are known for their excellent customer service in the speaker department as well. SVS is renowned for it and JBL is probably similar to Infinity.
The same goes for Onecall. You can get this for a little less after coupon then the SVS http://ww1.onecall.com/PID_15083.htm.

Or what if I went to CC and got an Open Box Velodyne DPS 12 w/ no shipping.
The point is there are lots of variables and Wayne has written an excellent review giving us multiple reference points from which to extrapolate. This is just a very competitive pricepoint.

It's interesting how all the other subs seem to consistently rolloff at about 25 hz, but is the SVS engineered to be boosted in these areas? It could be the room effect or it could be a boost. That SVS had a meaty driver, huge magnet. The internal bracing was a nice find Wayne.
It was such a juicy "rare" review. I'm going to have to let it digest a bit. Posted Image

#7 of 47 OFFLINE   Mike^S

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Posted January 06 2005 - 03:04 PM

Nice review! It's strange that you could not get higher than 102dB from the PB10. Ed managed to get 110dB from his PB10. I just tested my PB10 and got 110dB at 40hz.

The FR for all the subs could be flatter. Maybe your rooms are difficult to work with. Here's the FR for my PB10:

http://nike.cecs.csu...sisk/PB10-b.jpg

Great review though! I liked the comparisons to the other subwoofers. Too bad you couldn't test the JBL EP250.

#8 of 47 OFFLINE   Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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Posted January 06 2005 - 03:44 PM

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone. Posted Image

Huge room, remember? My room is three of Ed’s. Makes a big difference. Posted Image

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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#9 of 47 OFFLINE   steve nn

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Posted January 06 2005 - 05:37 PM

Nice job Wayne. That had to take time and effort. I'm going to let it sit awhile and then reread.

#10 of 47 OFFLINE   Mike^S

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Posted January 06 2005 - 06:32 PM

So you got higher than 102dB when you tested in the smaller room?

#11 of 47 OFFLINE   Ilkka R

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Posted January 06 2005 - 11:51 PM

Craig Chase, are you now ready to admit that cutting sub higher will make it sound more musical and tighter? Posted Image

#12 of 47 OFFLINE   MikeDuke

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Posted January 07 2005 - 12:35 AM

Wow
What a great review Posted Image. Very well organized and presented.
I know what I like when I hear it

#13 of 47 OFFLINE   Craig Chase

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Posted January 07 2005 - 12:41 AM

Ilkka ... In a simple word ... NO. I have a pair of Maestros here that are flat to 13 Hz in my room, and they are quite musical. I have only tested more than 50 subwoofers over quite a few years, and properly done bass extension does NOT make a subwoofer less musical. Ridding a subwoofer of bloated deep bass WILL help it sound more musical, sure. But Ilkka, that just means the subwoofer in question was not that great of a design in the first place.
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#14 of 47 OFFLINE   Jack Gilvey

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Posted January 07 2005 - 12:54 AM

Good read...thanks for putting in the effort!



According to this review, it's +/- 1dB from 19Hz on up ground plane.
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#15 of 47 OFFLINE   Chuck_W

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Posted January 07 2005 - 01:13 AM

Great, well written review Wayne. This is the type of thing that keeps me coming back to this forum...and kinda makes me wish I had the need for another sub!

#16 of 47 OFFLINE   Max F

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Posted January 07 2005 - 01:32 AM

Very nice review. Posted Image

I'm convinced now that group delay has very little to do with why people like sealed subs for music. Its the natural rolloff of frequency response, or better yet, the rolloff in sealed subs work best with most rooms (room gain) to create a flatter response.

Thats it! I'm going to build a tempest sub that is ported and just equilize that baby (with my BFD) to sound tight as a drum. As long as the port is tuned very low, the group delay isn't going to be a factor in music. It may not be much of a factor anyway. What most people are hearing in fat or loose bass is the resonance of the room from those standing waves.

#17 of 47 OFFLINE   Ilkka R

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Posted January 07 2005 - 01:59 AM

Craig, okay I should have said that cutting a low tuned ported sub higher will make it sound more musical and tighter. Posted Image

#18 of 47 OFFLINE   Nigel Hooper

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Posted January 07 2005 - 02:08 AM

Ilkka drop it.

#19 of 47 OFFLINE   Ilkka R

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Posted January 07 2005 - 02:22 AM

Yep, maybe PB10 doesn't have properly done bass extension then... Nigel, why? Isn't discussion what we want, and Wayne clearly stated that cutting PB10 higher did make it sound more musical. Can we generalize this to other subs as well? Maybe, maybe not... We need more tests.

#20 of 47 OFFLINE   James Phung

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Posted January 07 2005 - 02:35 AM

Great review. I always wondered how the pb10 would compare to comparably priced b&m subs (esp. the infinity sub to match my infinity speakers). I'm glad I went with the pb10 (it just came in 2 days ago).

I don't remember getting a T-shirt with my pb10 though Posted Image




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