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130,000+ people die due to tidal wave in Asia...


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#41 of 200 OFFLINE   Jonathan White

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Posted December 28 2004 - 04:23 AM

The UK Government has given £500,000 in aid. Pathetic

#42 of 200 OFFLINE   Bob Spears

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Posted December 28 2004 - 04:36 AM

Quote:
Carlo:Then they were talking about one of the Canary Islands (I don't remember the name of it), which scientists have said is unstable, and if it had an earthquake or eruption (it's volcanic), one whole side of the island could slide into the ocean, causing a wave large enough to wipe out the east coast. If that's true, it sounds like what happened in Crichton's latest book (I guess I should read it), might be somewhat accurate, apart from the wave being caused by an earthquake and not a landslide.

Brian


This new novel by Patrick Robinson is about this scenario. I just finished it and it is a real page turner.

http://www.amazon.co....books&n=507846

happy holidays

bob

#43 of 200 OFFLINE   Scott McGillivray

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Posted December 28 2004 - 04:42 AM

I felt the same about my country giving $1 million. I mean, geeze guys...we're Canada! This is what we are known for (despite the fact that the USA actually gives way more than we do).

Lets dig deep and help these millions of people out!

The death toll is going to be staggering once the inevitable disease kicks in from lack of clean water and the piles of bodies.

Anyone have ideas on how we, as individuals, can actually help out???

Edit: I called my local MP (Member of Parliament) to request that we increase out donation to at least $100 Million.
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#44 of 200 OFFLINE   Chris

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Posted December 28 2004 - 04:44 AM

I think we're missing something here, though in terms of cost.

Right now, aid is (and should be) very low; this is primarily because there hasn't been any damage surveys, or governmental requests. What happens first is that assessments are done and then you decide what you are going to do.

As of right now, USA Aid has put forward $15M, not $7, so I'm not sure where that number came from. In order to go more then $15M, the president (or other political bodies) cannot just swipe a pen, they need a congressional approval as USAAid is up for rebudgetting and will need that assessment done..

Right now, the EU has put forward $4M, with a pledge of $27M.

While the individual countries have put forward smaller amounts, all nations contribute to the UN disaster relief fund, which is the primary reason we donate (if they still have the money.. but that's another story)..

Those within the state department have been encouraged by Red Cross and Red Crescent to put forward about $14M (TOTAL) at the beginning in order to help sanitize water sources to help prevent the spread of disease, and to lead a UN assessment panel of 48 people to evaluate the damage and form a comprehensive plan, figuring a lump budget of need and then asking for resources.

Even Japan and other governments are waiting to know "what needs done and how much $" before they just start throwing money at it. We learned from doing that to disasterous effect in the Turkey earthquake.. when so much money poured that way and it was uncontrolled, which led to an enormous amount of fraud and not a lot of relief.

I know there are those who want to see the coffers spring wide open, and this makes an easy target to complain.. but this is (IMHO) the smart way to do this.
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#45 of 200 OFFLINE   James St

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Posted December 28 2004 - 05:28 AM

Here's a PDF showing what could happen with the Canary Island scenario.

Link

#46 of 200 OFFLINE   Grant B

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Posted December 28 2004 - 06:18 AM

A local Buddist temple is collecting clothing for the surviors.
I guess it's time to go through the closet and try and help. I am sure they can fit into the clothes I can't anymore
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#47 of 200 OFFLINE   Ted Todorov

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Posted December 28 2004 - 06:49 AM

I heard on the BBC this morning there were videos taken by tourists of the actual wave(s). Has anyone actually seen one of these?

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#48 of 200 OFFLINE   Jeff Ulmer

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Posted December 28 2004 - 06:53 AM

Quote:
As of right now, USA Aid has put forward $15M, not $7, so I'm not sure where that number came from.

The Red Cross had requested $7M, but only got $4M. This is lunch money.

If you can spend $330M on a single war jet, you can cough up a few billion in immediate relief. Perhaps if there was oil in Indonesia, there would be a more generous response. The UN has it pegged - stingy, and that goes for Canada too (my country). These people had little to begin with, now they have nothing, and I won't be surprised if the death toll is over 100,000 at the end of it all.

#49 of 200 OFFLINE   Rob Gillespie

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Posted December 28 2004 - 07:25 AM

A friend from work flew out to Thailand on Christmas Eve. Thankfully she is OK as she was still settling into Bangkok and hand't ventured as far as the coast. However they felt the aftershocks and said that the tsunami hit two hours later.

Someone I half-know though she'd lost her brother at Phuket but it turns out he's alive. His girlfriend didn't survive though.

Everyone is going to know someone who has been involved in this in some way.

Perhaps we should all ditch a couple of DVD purchases this month and give the money to the aid charities.
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#50 of 200 OFFLINE   Chris_Morris

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Posted December 28 2004 - 07:28 AM

It amazes me that after a tragedy, the first thing on some people's minds is how much money is flowing that way. Money doesn't solve everything and cannot reverse time.

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#51 of 200 OFFLINE   Scott DeToffol

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Posted December 28 2004 - 08:00 AM

Video of tsunami hitting Patong Beach in Thailand:

Video here

Any others?

#52 of 200 OFFLINE   Jeff Ulmer

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Posted December 28 2004 - 08:09 AM

Quote:
Money doesn't solve everything and cannot reverse time.

No, it does not, but there is nothing that can be done to help the dead. They are gone forever, but money can help keep those still alive from dying, and can help rebuild all the infrastructure that has been lost, so there is a very valid concern for how much aid is being given to the areas affected. These early hours are when help is needed most.

We live in the world's most priviledged society, and had an exponentially higher standard of living even before this tragedy and devastation. I think it is very fair to be critical of the amount of funding that is being allocated for relief efforts when so much is freely given with little constructive purpose.

#53 of 200 OFFLINE   Chris_Morris

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Posted December 28 2004 - 08:17 AM

But wouldn't it be smarter to slowly dole out monies? In these first days, I am sure there is no one who knows exactly how much it is goint to take. It's sad to say that with downtrodden countries and esp. with the UN, sending to large of an amount at first only causes large sums of it to disappear into thin air. Send a few million for emergency efforts now, but wait a few weeks to see what kind of long term relief is needed.

Chris

#54 of 200 OFFLINE   Malcolm R

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Posted December 28 2004 - 08:28 AM

I wonder how much Russia and China, the superpowers of Asia, are going to contribute? As long as they take the lead, we can step up in support of them.

Donating or organizing anything through the bureaucracy of the UN is no better than just setting a pile of cash on fire or flushing it down the sewer. Donate millions to form a 48-person "assessment team"? It would be comical if it weren't so tragically true.
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#55 of 200 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted December 28 2004 - 08:29 AM

I agree with you Chris. To assume that we need to send a million $$ right away, is quite foolish since it may not all be needed. Plus, they can't spend it all right away, so I'd rather see them spend some now and then spend more in the next few weeks (as needed).

#56 of 200 OFFLINE   Craig S

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Posted December 28 2004 - 08:48 AM

Death toll is now nearing 60,000. Simply unbelievable.

I, like many others here, want to make a personal donation towards the relief effort. I think the Red Cross is the best place to give. Anybody have any other ideas?

BTW, the Red Cross says monetary donations are what is needed most. Unless you're near the afflicted area, physical gifts (clothes, blankets, etc.), while well-intentioned, actually represent extra cost to relief agencies (cataloguing, transportation costs, etc.).

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#57 of 200 OFFLINE   Ron-P

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Posted December 28 2004 - 08:53 AM

Quote:
I wonder how much Russia and China, the superpowers of Asia, are going to contribute? As long as they take the lead, we can step up in support of them.

I say we take the lead. Why wait and see what other nations do first?

I will be sending in a donation to the Red Cross.
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#58 of 200 OFFLINE   Danny Tse

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Posted December 28 2004 - 10:16 AM

The US government adds another $20 million for aid, totaling $35 million.

http://story.news.ya....st_pe/us_quake
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#59 of 200 OFFLINE   Chris

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Posted December 28 2004 - 10:44 AM

Quote:
I say we take the lead. Why wait and see what other nations do first?

I will be sending in a donation to the Red Cross.

I think though, if you talk to people who are there, the aid that is being noted right now isn't even for use right now.. there hasn't been an assessment. When I talk to those in the state dept. and other organizations who are there, they will tell you that right now it's such a mess that money is very low on the need list.. yes, in the long run, there will be a huge economic need, but right now it's completely unclear as to what to spend on.

But what is needed in high quantity are goods: food, clothes, water heaters and water purification systems, along with drugs. Right now, army forces in Phillipines and Sri Lanka have been assigned to help clean up and to move purified water, etc. These are things that private organizations like Red Cross / Red Crescent use your money for and do so effectively, far more effectively then any government body.

Large reconstruction work later (like building, army corp of engineer work) is down the road, and that's where government aid will be needed.

The State Dept. estimates cleanup to run somewhere between $3-$5 BILLION dollars. Of which the US will supply a gigantic chunk of it (a requester for at least $2B is being prepared) The reality is, that money is not allotted in any budget, and as I stated earlier, can't be done without congressional approval.

But more then that, even if it could, it'd be stupid to do it right now. The Red Cross and Red Crescent have asked for survey crews and basic goods to assess the needs. We need to step back from the direct desire for the money spigot and instead wait until we know exactly what needs to be done. We screwed up in Turkey bad when we did it the other way; while I understand the need of compassion (and there are tons of private organizations that do great work) for the amount of projected aid that will be needed, we are best served to wait until we know exactly what we need rather then continually revise based on political demand Posted Image

(I say that, and then political demand will continue to make people offer more money *shrug*)
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#60 of 200 OFFLINE   Jeff Ulmer

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Posted December 28 2004 - 11:15 AM

My point was that the Red Cross asked for $7M and were only given just over half. Of course they don't know what things will cost, but there should be an effort made to make sure that the needed supplies are made available now.


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