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130,000+ people die due to tidal wave in Asia...


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#181 of 200 Cees Alons

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Posted January 15 2005 - 01:42 AM

Chris,

Quote:
...and that next time they have a disaster that they didn't want our help.
No, they didn't say that at all.

Quote:
The sooner, the better. In the future, there will be no need for the foreign military presence.
They prefer non-military help. Of course, they hope it won't be necessary at all, ever.

BTW, where is that quote from?? "The insults continue..." looks more like an opinion than an objective fact (and a rather strange opinion as well).


Cees

#182 of 200 Chris

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Posted January 15 2005 - 11:26 AM

Quote:
Well, Indonesia did say the other day that they wanted the US troops out ASAP, and that next time they have a disaster that they didn't want our help.

Well, it's not really that.. they don't mind the help. They just don't want branded UN or US help etc. because they have too much ground resistence because local religious are laying into them that this is Israel's fault, etc. etc. etc. and those organizations are portrayed as supporting them.

Take of the military gear, and send in just red cross, and they are OK (for the most part) though some organizations have also been told to leave over religious battles as well Posted Image

It's kind of a mess, but you yield to the locals.
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#183 of 200 Chris_Morris

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Posted January 15 2005 - 12:17 PM

Quote:
It's kind of a mess, but you yield to the locals.


Considering that the majority of the relief work is being done by the militaries (use of helicopters, planes, etc.) then maybe yielding to the locals would consist of letting the local religious big shots do the work for them.

Quote:
BTW, where is that quote from?? "The insults continue..." looks more like an opinion than an objective fact (and a rather strange opinion as well)


It came from www.boortz.com and is opinion, but I tend to agree with him. When a country like the US (and others) goes out of their way to send in help ( I can't remember exactly the numbers, but I think I heard that a battlegroup was sent) from their military (that are not really set aside for that type of job), and then once a good part of the work is done are told to get out, we never want your help again (that is, from your military), it is like a slap in the face. Of course, they don't want them out until the end of March, which should give the evil ones time enough to get alot of the rebuilding done.

To me it would be tempting to pull all troops out immediatly, but that would only harm the innocent civilians, most of which I think would like to slap the big shots for their stupid posturing.


Chris

#184 of 200 Malcolm R

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Posted January 15 2005 - 04:10 PM

Fine. I say we pull out now and take all our aid with us.

Let the fanatics take care of their own.
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#185 of 200 Jeff Ulmer

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Posted January 16 2005 - 07:24 AM

I don't think it should be that hard to understand why a Muslim country would have reservations about a predominantly Christian army moving in, however this is NOT something we should be debating here.

Defining a timetable for the military to leave is also not hard to understand. It isn't that the aid isn't wanted or appreciated, but I can fully understand that people in these countries don't want to find themselves occupied, especially by countries that have fundamentally opposed religious beliefs.

The G7 needs to demonstrate that its intentions are humanitarian only, and be prepared to leave when requested.

#186 of 200 Parinya

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Posted January 16 2005 - 11:05 AM

I live in bangkok,700-800 Km far from Pukhet,but could feel the quake that day.

#187 of 200 Holadem

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Posted January 16 2005 - 07:17 PM

Quote:
Fine. I say we pull out now and take all our aid with us.

Let the fanatics take care of their own.
Spoken like a true extremist.

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#188 of 200 Mary M S

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Posted January 17 2005 - 06:05 AM

In a effort to temper the worry about whether or not relief aid work is appreciated, I would like to relay some of what I heard at a dinner (family powwow) just for the purpose of listening to my Nephew relay his experiences of Sri Lanka, from which, he had just returned.

The following is NOT an attempt to discuss politics simply an outline of the often difficult social "lay of the land" which Aid workers to Sri Lanka and other areas in need of aid, are required to navigate.
The family grilled him at times Posted Image like a group of reporters. As regards a question asking him if any tensions arose between the various groups working together in these countries secular, political and religious, he stated. "Each aid group has its motive for being there, the local small hard core communist group to obtain members, the government to be perceived as responsibly taking care of its citizens, the various religiously supported aid groups like my own, of course, are there; hoping by example to generate questions from the locals regarding our choices in life." Interestingly enough the smallest aid group representation in the areas he traveled during two weeks onsite was by the Red Cross, (although you have to factor he was there early days yet, - the Red Cross may not have had time to gear large efforts up for that region.) His time encompassed the 2nd and 3rd weeks just post-tsunami. The largest predominance of aid workers (not locally based) he saw in numbers were the American Military, Doctors without Borders, The Methodist and Baptist Church Disaster groups. He arrived Colombo, (West Coast) and traveled round the South Tip and did his work in the area of Tangalle. He stated that areas are basically being "adopted" (controlled) by different (and very special interest) aid groups. The strongest American military presence is in the area of Galle just West of Tangalle (towards Columbo).
His group of 12 went to the South Tip as you travel further up around the coast to the East you are getting into more and more remote regions heavily controlled by the mainly Hindu Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE or Tamil Tigers) . This group has recently split so that there are now two Tamil Tiger groups one more North one more East. The successive majority government of Sri Lanka has been Sinhalese, which also is split, with the orthodox general base and now a growing Left-wing JVP (People's Liberation Front) in addition there is a smaller National Heritage party of Buddhist monks. There has been an uneasy truce for 2 years in Sri Lanka with isolated incidents breaking out. This truce continues during the current crisis but as always, - tenuously.
The East Coast group had to travel with a guide who would stop at night and not travel further stating that they would be "shot" if they attempted to move further in the dark.. At one point the East Coast group had to detour inland to bypass round a heavily forested region and then back again to the Coast itself. During this time they were "passed" off back and forth at various points, to the Sinhalese Military then to a Tamal Tiger representative. The Sri Lanka Navy leads the relief aid from Columbo around the South Tip then its presence tends to peter out as you travel up the East Coast. He stated they had some resentment in Tangalle by (I get my group mixed up, Buddists?) But as my Nephew was the liaison between the Navy he mentioned it in passing to his Navy Contact, who stated, "I have a friend, I'll make a call and take care of that." ....no more problems!

We asked what he felt was his largest contribution during his two weeks onsite. He stated it was his work in an area slightly inland from the beaches. They rotated 1st week work days rotating between several offical local designated refugee camps. One morning when being guided to a new refugee camp, the guide took a wrong turn (topography has been changed somewhat, -as you can imagine) and they found an area which was comprised of approx. 80 families who had fled up from the shore. This village of fishermen had lost only 3 members during the tsunami due to a warning from one teenage female who had seen a first wave hit an area which was a point jutting further out into the ocean, than the village. She had run screaming telling everyone to run to high ground. They were in the worst condition of any area he had visited; The Navy until his group found them, had been entirely unaware of their presence. The whole village had moved into to some partially constructed barracks that had been built and deserted in previous years. He said the conditions were horrible, no electricity, very little water, and the trash and debris from the Tsunami itself in that area was horrendous. His group spent his last week when they handed off to South Coast #2 group, working only in this village, the need there was so desperate. By the time they left the Navy had gotten earthmoving equipment into the area, to start cleaning up. He stated that many of the men (fisherman) spoke about how they never wanted to go back to work upon the sea, they were too afraid of it.

He said that the "people" everywhere; were so happy to see any (and all aid workers) and their expressed relief and appreciation transcended and currently overwhelms all the grumbling from various special interest groups who are staying rather subdued about vocalizing any resentment. The joy of the majority, - over being helped, keeps any vocal extremists muzzled currently.

As regards the "tourist's" making merry while aid work is going on, he stated most nights his group returned to a Hotel in Tangalle, he said the Hotel, which catered to tourism, had closed after the tsunami, it reopened only to accommodate his group of aid workers. The Hotel manager repeatedly told my nephew that his gratitude was extreme, because One: A livelihood had disappeared for the near future, and Two, since they were on standby waiting for Hotel to reopen they could not help in aid efforts directly. By helping my Nephews group he said the entire staff felt connected indirectly in having had a part in the coastal aid efforts.

Two interesting stories my Nephew relayed, was his Navy Contact discussing the desire of the locals to explain the "why" for this great calamity which had befallen them. The current Tsunami, was bringing up remembrance of a great Tsunami that had devastated Sri Lanka a 1000-yr. past. And that during that time it was felt to have been in response to "evil" the people had done. A Queen of the era had sacrificed a daughter in appeasement for the bad Karma. My nephew noted that it is of interest to note, that much of the coastlines most heavily decimated by this Tsunami were areas that had the highest child-sex for foreigners, traffic. He wondered (without asking his Naval friend) if this would impact the Sri Lanka's somewhat partially accepting tolerance which often ignores, this underworld trafficking.

Secondly, he relayed that one of their groups sent to Indonesia had almost drowned, first days in. They had hired a boat to take the group to the first of more remote islands in the region and had been caught up in a terrible storm. The situation became desperate with the boat sinking. Amongst cargo, they were carrying a load of body bags since they would be the first aid workers to reach this particular island, and had assumed those items to be a priority need.
The storm was so violent the whole group zipped up in body bags (like raincoats) for protection. They were taken off by a rescue ship that heard the radio signal for help. Afterwards the American Military began shuttling them via Helicopters between the islands they were accessing,...no more boat trips.
They were making calls to the American Military on satellite phones provided by local revolutionaries when they needed removal from an area!

Beyond the various, religious, political and ethic groups are simply people. Grateful for what help they are receiving.
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#189 of 200 Kirk Gunn

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Posted January 17 2005 - 07:57 AM

Thanks for the feedback Mary - very informative !

#190 of 200 MarkHastings

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Posted January 26 2005 - 12:53 AM

As if surviving walls of water (in India) wasn't enough, they now have to deal with walls of people:
http://story.news.ya....india_stampede

...something just isn't right.

#191 of 200 Henry Gale

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Posted January 26 2005 - 08:12 AM

Quote:
Is there any way the thread headline can be changed to reflect the latest number of [300,000]?

I'm just updating this earlier request.

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#192 of 200 ZacharyTait

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Posted January 26 2005 - 09:59 AM

According to CNN, the number of dead from the tsunami is 212,000, not 300,000.

#193 of 200 RobertR

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Posted January 26 2005 - 10:25 AM

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Indonesia did say the other day that they wanted the US troops out ASAP
My wife wants people to be aware of the revolting and asinine ethnic discrimination that goes on in Indonesia. You would think that people would all work together to properly dispose of dead bodies; after all, it's the humane thing to do, yes? Not if you're ethnic Chinese in Indonesia. You have to PAY considerable extra money to Native Indonesians if you want them to take care of dead Chinese. That's the kind of nonsense that goes on there, and an example of why my wife left that idiotic country.

#194 of 200 Henry Gale

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Posted January 26 2005 - 10:50 AM

Quote:
According to CNN, the number of dead from the tsunami is 212,000, not 300,000.


Thanks Zachary. I heard the 300,000 figure on NPR today, but I can't document the source and I'm sure it was an estimate.

"I was born to ramble, born to rove
Some men are searchin for the Holy Grail
But there ain't nothin sweeter 
Than riden' the rails."
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#195 of 200 Kenneth

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Posted January 26 2005 - 11:13 AM

Quote:
Thanks Zachary. I heard the 300,000 figure on NPR today, but I can't document the source and I'm sure it was an estimate.

I heard the 300,000 figure described as dead and missing.

Kenneth

#196 of 200 andrew markworthy

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Posted January 26 2005 - 10:40 PM

Quote:
Fine. I say we pull out now and take all our aid with us.

It is better to give than to receive.

Quote:
Let the fanatics take care of their own.
Absolutely. And perhaps the industrialised nations should stop all aid of any kind unless every single recipient bows down in praise?

#197 of 200 ZacharyTait

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Posted January 27 2005 - 03:10 AM

Quote:
I heard the 300,000 figure described as dead and missing.

Ah, that makes sense. Carry on.

#198 of 200 Chris_Morris

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Posted February 24 2005 - 05:20 AM

Canadian couple's camera found, photos show beach seconds before wave hits

The next to last picture puts it into perspective showing the wave in relation to people's height.

#199 of 200 David Galindo

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Posted February 24 2005 - 07:33 AM

His last pictures...whoa.

#200 of 200 Cameron Yee

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Posted March 09 2005 - 05:30 PM

Did anyone watch Petra Nemcova's interview on Primetime? Hers is only one of many stories and certainly no more significant than say the woman who had to make a choice between her two children, but hopefully the attention paid to her for being a celebrity will remind people the area still needs help and attention.
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