Jump to content



Sign up for a free account!

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests to win things like this Logitech Harmony Ultimate Remote and you won't get the popup ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Hey, New CO & Woofs /XBL^2/ Very Interesting Drivers!


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
72 replies to this topic

#41 of 73 Chad Kuypers

Chad Kuypers

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 79 posts
  • Join Date: May 08 2000

Posted December 28 2004 - 02:53 PM

Hello,

Sorry about my absence to your questions. The weekend was busy and I am shipping out more drivers every day. Posted Image


Quote:
Speaking of efficiency, what's the efficiency of the Avalanche drivers?


Greg was pretty much right on with the specs. Thanks Greg! Posted Image



Quote:
Any plans on a 10" atlas or avalanche? I see you have a 8" atlas in the works.Just curious, my 10" jl's I have in my suv are gettin' tired


Yup. Plans for an Atlas 10 are already in motion. I will have specs and pictures posted for the Atlas 8 and Avalanche 12 very shortly.


Quote:
How about a 10" that could also serve as a midbass running up to say 500hz?


The Atlas 10 would take care of that nicely.



Quote:
Factor in that it allows two to be used in a bipole cab (~cancelling out rocking coupling motion) in ~the same cab size as the Tempest, making this the SQ/SPL 'no-brainer' choice IMO if you have the budget and it lives up to anywhere near its stated/calc'd performance.


You kind of read my mind on this one. A pair of the Avalanche 15's firing opposite from eachother in a 4+ cubic foot enclosure with a 1500 watt pro amplifier will be one of the recommended enclosures/alignments on our website. That setup can sweep 8+ Liters of air and easily pass 110 dB anechoic at 20 Hz in a sealed enclosure.

That proposed setup was actually why I stopped the design on an ultra-high excursion subwoofer for the time being. What is the point of having a 15 inch subwoofer with 45 mm of xmax that costs $600-800+ and needs 2000-4000 watts of power to use its excursion when a pair of Avalanche 15's will play louder with only 1500 watts and cost less? The whole idea with our drivers was to make them able to use their excursion without a lot of power. There are plenty of other subwoofer drivers that have the same or more xmax but require massive amounts of power to utilize it.


Quote:
The 18 models kinda like four Adire DPL12's...nice stuff.


I am currently running tests and measuring the Avalanche 18 in a 4-5 cubic foot sealed enclosure. The frequency response so far looks to be very close to most popular 15 inch subwoofers in the same sized enclosure but with an overall advantage in sensitivity. (It is still too darn cold outside to do any serious ground plane testing...) If people can get past the idea of the slightly higher enclosure Q and just look at the frequency response, this alignment will probably make a LOT of people happy. Of course in an 8 cubic foot sealed enclosure, the low end seems to extend on forever in-room.


Quote:
Which 'standard driver' do you think he refers to?


I am simply referring to the majority of drivers that have a single gap and a long voice coil. They usually exhibit a parabolic BL curve as a result of their motor design. Thanks for the further clarification on motor linearity Mark. Posted Image


I sent drivers out to DUMAX for testing, so we should have some more detailed xmax and motor linearity information available soon.

#42 of 73 Robert_CA

Robert_CA

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 91 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 28 2002

Posted December 28 2004 - 03:48 PM

Chad,
I sent you a PM.

#43 of 73 ThomasW

ThomasW

    Screenwriter

  • 2,282 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 06 1999

Posted December 28 2004 - 04:46 PM

Quote:
I sent drivers out to DUMAX for testing, so we should have some more detailed xmax and motor linearity information available soon.
Sweet Posted Image

#44 of 73 RandyMathis

RandyMathis

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 94 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 19 2003

Posted December 28 2004 - 07:22 PM

Wish I could find room for the 700L vented box tuned to 10hz, though. Can you say down 8.27db at 10hz?

I've got room Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Sonotube!!!

30" diameter and a minimum of 60.5" height not including extra needed to account for port.

That is the extent of my knowledge.

Anybody care to help design???

Would probably need to be on casters due to size/weight problems.

I'm not really worried about loud. I just want deep bass.

In keeping with the "avalanche" name i'm thinking of naming such a thing "The Yeti". Posted Image

I was going to try IB with 4 Daytons but this would cost nearly the same and would be more fun.

I wonder if any place around here sells 6' X 30" diameter sonotubes?

#45 of 73 RandyMathis

RandyMathis

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 94 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 19 2003

Posted December 28 2004 - 08:24 PM

I'm putting the numbers into WinIsd.

What are the values for SPL and BL?

I have...

QTS: .400
Vas: 550l
Fs: 16Hz
Re: 3.2ohm
Le: 2.4mH
Xmax: .027m
Z: 4ohm
Qms: 6.00
Qes: .429
Pe: 800W
dia: 0.4699m
Sd: 1.210m^2

Any help?

#46 of 73 Brian-K-Owens

Brian-K-Owens

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 194 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 06 2003

Posted December 29 2004 - 12:36 AM

I received my Avalanche 15 last night!!!!!!

First impression is WOW!!! I have two tumults, so I pulled one and installed the avalanche in place of it. The enclosures are 1.5" thick with 2.25" baffle with a net internal volume of 2.5 ft^3 sealed. Medium to heavy stuffing. Running side by side with a tumult, they sound identical to me (sound quality and freq response), but the avalanche is noticeably louder. Good clean sound and I hit it with 1100 watts for a short period of time and man was it pumping out the bass.

I then went ahead and kicked in my EQ that is set to play the Tumults flat to 20 Hz. The avalanche had no problem with it. Never once seemed to mind the added boost and was reaching some serious excursion before the full 1100 watts.

For fun, I then had to run a 25 Hz test tone into it to see the full excursion. MAN!!! no problem with 2" peak to peak and no mechanical or unwanted noise whatsoever. Just a nice 25 Hz tone which after a minute or two ended the wife putting up with my testing. . . . .

I will say these are GREAT drivers. With a 500 watt plate amp (yes I picked one up at PE for $197 last week just for this driver) this driver will make one heck of a sub for a nice $$$ savings to compete with the tumult and a 1000 watt plate amp.

Great job on these drivers. I have owned quite a few subs, and I was really impressed.

Anyone want to buy a pair of Tumults?

Brian
Brian Owens

#47 of 73 Chris Brock

Chris Brock

    Second Unit

  • 328 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 13 2003

Posted December 29 2004 - 02:20 AM

is there any possibility we could get some side by side pics of the two? Thanks for you comments by the way! When these drivers come back from being DUMAX tested do you think they will have have a higher xmax rating then what they are currently spec'ed at? an 18 with 30+mm of linear throw and an even higher mechanical limit is insane. My 1804's have 26mm of xmax but I am convinced the mechanical limits are far greater since it seems the driver NEVER runs out of throw.

#48 of 73 Brian-K-Owens

Brian-K-Owens

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 194 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 06 2003

Posted December 29 2004 - 02:43 AM

I was going to post pics from work this morning, but my home email did not send them to my work email for some reason. . .

Not sure what the mechanical throw is; I never asked Chad. I tried to bottom the driver last night with heavy rap music and 1100 watts, but could not do it. Even with the bass boost, I was near the 1100 watts when I backed down and no sign of bottoming. With the driver rating of 800 watts, I was getting to the point of being worried about running almost 50% over that for almost a half an hour.

I actually owned one of the first BP 1803's that I bought from Pat on the preoreder sale. Was always a very BIG fan of Blueprint. Chad actually bought one of my 1803's so he should know first hand how it compares to the Avalanche 18.

There is definitely a noticeable difference in drivers with XBL in my opinion, that along with the significantly lower Fs and Le, I just don't see how the avalanche would not be a better driver than the 1803/1804.

Brian
Brian Owens

#49 of 73 Chris Brock

Chris Brock

    Second Unit

  • 328 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 13 2003

Posted December 29 2004 - 03:09 AM

Quote:
I tried to bottom the driver last night




Posted Image :b

That is awesome. This is really starting to purk my interest alot.

#50 of 73 Brian-K-Owens

Brian-K-Owens

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 194 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 06 2003

Posted December 29 2004 - 03:51 AM

There are a couple of pictures on my website now:

http://bkolfo4.frees...com/photo4.html

Posted Image

Brian
Brian Owens

#51 of 73 Rob Bird

Rob Bird

    Agent

  • 47 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 21 2004

Posted December 29 2004 - 04:33 AM

Give up just a bit of low end extension and put the 18" into a 500L sealed Bessel arrangement with a Qtc of .577 and see what you think. It's got the best phase numbers of any driver I've modeled with decent extension below 20hz, and is down only -15.5db at 10hz...with a group delay of 11ms there (peak!).

Uh yeah.

The 15" looks very similar to the Tumult. It needs a bit larger box and a bit less power to model almost the same. If cost were no object, I'd be inclined to get the Tumult.

Chad, you mentioned not building an ultra high excursion design with a very low Fs and exotic cone materials because of the cost. I'm here to say I'd spend it. Something like the Avalanche with lower box requirements, higher power needs and more excursion. For example, if the Eclipse Ti's had XBL^2 motors and lower Fs to go along with that 44mm 1-way xmax, it would be a no brainer.

#52 of 73 Chris Brock

Chris Brock

    Second Unit

  • 328 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 13 2003

Posted December 29 2004 - 04:57 AM

I have to agree with Rob on this one also. I think there are alot of people out there in the DIY market that would gladly fork over the extra cash for the higher xmax and higher power handling. I would suggest taking another look at that. Also several other companies will be releasing 40+mm xmax subs in the next few months and I would really like to see Ascendant Audio challenge those companies. In DIY audio competition between good companies means better toys for us all!


Also, just a rough observation from the pic above, the Avalance has a single stacked magnet and the tumult has double. But it almost looks like the single magnet of the Avalance is a little larger in diameter? Could you possible check this out if you have the opportunity? Man I would have loved to see an excursion pic from when you were playing the 25hz tone at full tilt!!

#53 of 73 Brian-K-Owens

Brian-K-Owens

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 194 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 06 2003

Posted December 29 2004 - 06:35 AM

I am 99% sure magnets are the same size. If I remember correctly, the top plate is not quite as tall. . .My Tumult is back in its home and is not coming out until it is replaced by a pair of Avalanches. I dropped the avalanche on the wood floor taking it out and made a nice dent. . . no more subs in and out of the box for now. I have learned that I will NEVER again design a 60 pound driver to be flush mounted in the box. Man is it a pain to take in and out!!!!!!

I think when it comes down to it, there are not as many people as you would think that will fork out $600 for an ultra high excursion driver. I, like you, am all for it. People cannot believe the single XXX 15 in my truck. It is fun when you tell someone "I just have one sub in the back", then you crank it and they start looking for a way out of the vehicle. Posted Image

Many people are going to start talking about doppler distortion when you talk about the high excursion. Here is a direct comment from Bill Fitzmaurice when I posted the new RE sub pics on his forum:

Quote:
I'd imagine that Doppler distortion would be quite high as well. But it is interesting.



The way people raved about the AV15's, it looks like this driver is a nice step inbetween the AV15 and the Tumult. Even with that, using 1100 watts, the Avalanche outperformed the Tumult well enough that no equipment was needed to measure the difference. Even my wife and kids could tell how much louder it was over the tumult. Beyond that, I am not sure how much louder the Tumult stepped up to 1600 watts would even be. Modeling shows around 2 dB. . .

Brian
Brian Owens

#54 of 73 Rob Bird

Rob Bird

    Agent

  • 47 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 21 2004

Posted December 29 2004 - 07:43 AM

Out of curiosity, what are these 40+mm excursion subs that are going to be released? ATM I am trying to decide if the extra cash for the Tumult is worth the smaller box size and higher amp requirements. I don't think it is.

If the extra cash brought a 15" that charted like the Avalanche 18 (with lower sensitivity, let's say), then I'd be all over it. I also know that a shiny aluminum or ti driver has higher waf than a big black cone.

#55 of 73 Brian-K-Owens

Brian-K-Owens

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 194 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 06 2003

Posted December 29 2004 - 07:54 AM

Have you seen this picture? I think it does near 5" p-to-p.

Posted Image


Someone from RE posted it, and with CES in just a few more days, I would think you will see them coming soon.



For WAF, grilles or downfire works great. I think my wife would like a black cone instead of a shiny cone that would stand out in the room. . .

Brian
Brian Owens

#56 of 73 Shawn Solar

Shawn Solar

    Supporting Actor

  • 767 posts
  • Join Date: May 12 2001

Posted December 29 2004 - 08:18 AM

I like multiple drivers myself. Lower cost subs that reach full potential at a lower wattage is very enticing for me. I could load two into the rom and use one 1k watt amp is what I like. The added benifit is not having to wire another 15amp circuit everytime I add a sub..lol until I can run dipole or Ib subs I think my next sub will be two sealed subs. It won't be until the summer that I'll be able to play with a new sub but it nice to see more options coming out.

#57 of 73 Rob Bird

Rob Bird

    Agent

  • 47 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 21 2004

Posted December 29 2004 - 05:01 PM

OMG Brian, what is that? It looks kind of like the Eclipse Ti....check some of the videos in my thread on it in the last two days.

#58 of 73 Brian Corr

Brian Corr

    Supporting Actor

  • 544 posts
  • Join Date: May 10 1999

Posted December 30 2004 - 02:32 AM

Brian,
what amp are you using to drive the subs?

#59 of 73 Brian-K-Owens

Brian-K-Owens

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 194 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 06 2003

Posted December 30 2004 - 02:34 AM

I have a QSC PLX 3402 that I use on my Tumults. I was using one channel of it to drive the Avalanche.

Brian
Brian Owens

#60 of 73 Aaron Howell

Aaron Howell

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 196 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 19 2003

Posted December 30 2004 - 07:21 AM

I hope this is not too elementary of a question, but why do the voice coils on the atlas series have a different impedance? Does the lower impedance better accommodate the variable Q?


Back to Members' Theaters, HT Projects, Remotes, Seating, Accessories & Lighting



Forum Nav Content I Follow