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Paradigm Studio 60's Owners


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35 replies to this topic

#1 of 36 Antonio_B

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Posted December 12 2004 - 02:59 PM

I just got a new pair of Studios 60 a few days ago but i'm not very pleased with them.
At the beginning,they sounded clearer,crisper and more powerful than what i hear now.
Yesterday i was listening to some music when suddenly in the middle of the song the sound got much lower and weaker.
You guys have an idea why all of this is happening?

By the way,i'm driving them with the Pioneer 54TX which is 100watts/channel.

#2 of 36 Jason GT

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Posted December 12 2004 - 07:57 PM

Not being there, I can't help you directly, but let's start things this way (troubleshooting tree):

1) What were you listening to when the sound changed? Were you listening at a high volume?

2) What do you mean that the "sound got much lower and weaker" - was it overall complete loss of volume? Did all high frequencies hit the crapper? Midrange? Bass only? Did the speakers sound strained before they crapped out?

3) Did this occur to both speakers?

4) Have you tried swapping out the defective speakers with other, working speakers? (Ie, to determine if the problem is your AVR or the speakers)?

#3 of 36 Antonio_B

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Posted December 13 2004 - 12:36 AM

Jason,

1)First of all i was listening to a videogame soundtrack and I was not playing it at high volumes by any means(it was not an original CD).

2)When i say "sound got much lower and weaker" I mean that -40db on my receiver would have equaled a -50db;as if you have turned down the volume knob.They did not sound strained before the overall volume got lower.

3)It occured to both speakers at the same.

4)I haven't tried any other pair of speakers yet hooked to this receiver

Now what i think,i've chosen to put the receiver at the bottom of my audio/video rack.There's only 1 centimeter to let the receiver breathe from the top.Can we say that the receiver got hotter and had to diminish the power delivered to the speakers to refresh itself(maybe a safe mode?).

Damn when i heard those speakers in the store hooked up to the same receiver I currently have, they sounded better than what i hear at home now...

#4 of 36 BrianWoerndle

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Posted December 13 2004 - 12:50 AM

You definatly need more room for your receiver to breathe. The Pioneer should not have any problem driving the 60s at moderate volumes. I ran 60's on a Denon 3803 for awhile with no problems.
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#5 of 36 Jason GT

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Posted December 13 2004 - 03:28 AM

Try giving your AVR more space.

Studio 60s are not a tough amplifier load by any means. What you're describing is pretty odd as the usual protection modes shut off the AVR. Perhaps the Elites have different protection schemes (and I don't want to register on the Pioneer electronics site to d/l the manual).

One more thing - what surround mode are you running your AVR in? Stereo should sound louder from the 2 fronts than if you applied, say DPL or All-ch stereo as you're splitting the AVR's power reserves. Try going back to stereo and see if thta's the issue.
One thing that is unclear is this - is there simply a drop in volume (which wouldn't be that big a deal) or actual sound quality? Can you not simply turn the volume knob higher (not really recommended for long periods 'til you figure out what's going on, though).

#6 of 36 Bill Blank

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Posted December 13 2004 - 04:41 AM

Did the drop happen when going from the game's menu to the gameplay itself? Often the volume of music/effects changes or can be changed in the game's settings menu.

Have you experienced this with movies or music?

Bill

#7 of 36 Kevin. W

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Posted December 13 2004 - 06:06 AM

Have you tried the same soundtrack on another setup? Have you tried other music on your setup to rule out your system? It could just be the way te soundtrack was mastered.

Kevin

#8 of 36 John Garcia

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Posted December 13 2004 - 07:34 AM

Quote:
Studio 60s are not a tough amplifier load by any means.

That's a bit strong; the 60s dip down below 3 Ohms Ohms, so they are not a light load either, but that receiver should be able to handle them for average listening.

All the speakers do is reproduce what they are fed, so with both exhibiting the same symptom would suggest something other than the speakers themselves, such as the receiver or the source.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#9 of 36 Antonio_B

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Posted December 13 2004 - 10:08 AM

I don't know what to do...
i'm just not happy with the new audio setup i bought.
I want my audio to sound like my local theatre;very powerful,crystal clear and crunchy sound.

Here's my setup:

Studios 60
Paradigm Seismic-12
Elite 54TX

Do we have to step in the "10 000$/pair of speakers ground" to realize what i'm describing?

#10 of 36 Bill Blank

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Posted December 13 2004 - 10:33 AM

Your system's sound should blow away your local theater's.

Perhaps you have something set incorrectly in your receiver? What speakers did you have before?

Bill

#11 of 36 Jason GT

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Posted December 13 2004 - 10:36 AM

It's not clear to me anymore what the issue is. At first it appeared to be a technical problem and it may still be.
On the other hand perhaps you simply don't like the way the equipment sounds (which is fine but really unfortunate). There are so many factors which will determine how a system sounds which we (here on HTF) have no control over, and we defintely don't know what kind of sound you like!

If you are expecting much fidelity out of video game soundtracks... well... I wouldn't.

The budget is likely not be the issue and speakers are only one part of your audio system. You may wish to examine what it is that you don't like about the sound and work your expectations from there.

You appear to be in Montreal. I'd ask my dealer to drop by and help me out with setup - you just spent ~$3k+ at his store so he happily should provide this service for you.

#12 of 36 TimMc

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Posted December 13 2004 - 12:13 PM

I think that either the 60's and/or the 54TX really need help. I'll tell you what we can do for you: since I'm already planning on making the trek north to pick up Older Boy from college, I could just extend the route a little and swing by to pick up the 60's & the Elite and we'll give them a complete and thorough test for you. And the best part for you is that I'd be glad to do this one gratis.

We'll bring the stuff back just as soon as I finish the testing (that Boy does have to go back to school eventually). Since this will be a very thorough test it will likely take a while - say five years or more? I know what you're thinking, but hey! - the price is right Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

(Semi-)seriously, I don't think that comment on the 60s was "a bit strong". We're driving some 60s with a 43TX and doing it rather well and quite easily, thank you vurrry much. Either in 2CH or surround, they sound OK to my feeble ears and sound like that at any volume setting short of bleeding. 60s simply should not be a problem for practically any Elite from the 43 on up.

And one more thing - is this still happening? Did it only happen that one time, or has this become a permanent condition? I'd be much, much more suspect of the source or some inadvertent setting (midnight mode or something like that) than your gear - that stuff should give adequate audio quality to put a serious grin on your face. And if you find it doesn't, just let me know - Boy's gonna be in school for a while & I'd be happy to go a little out of the way to "test" that gear...

#13 of 36 John Garcia

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Posted December 13 2004 - 01:38 PM

I didn't say they couldn't be driven off a receiver, but if you've ever heard the Studios driven off nice amps, you should/would understand where I am coming from. They sound much better when fed with the kind of hefty power that most receivers simply cannot deliver. These speakers are gluttons for power. My point being, they are not what I would call an "easy" load to drive.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#14 of 36 TimMc

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Posted December 13 2004 - 04:40 PM

Sorry, John - but there's usually a whole lot more to the equation than simply using a nice amp (which I'd typically take to mean a much more expensive and occasionally more powerful amp).

First things first: I completely agree that there's nothing wrong with adequate power - I'm a dues-paying member of the big-a$$ amp club. Second things second: we're not talking about 100s, we're just talking 60s. (For the 100s, I prefer to use Limerick Nuclear Power Station for the power. 1,134 MW, times 2. ;~)

I've listened to this particular pair of speakers through both a Hafler DH500 and an Odyssey, in addition to this lower-end Elite and a Yamaha receiver. In the current setup the 60s are bi-amp'd via the 43TX and there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between that and the separates in how they sound. Some of the other factors in our case that I think have an even greater influence than just W/channel include this being the den system. It's not in "the big room" - it's in a smaller room w/ an 8' ceiling and a couple of pieces of furniture too. Clean SPLs just come easier in that space. Given that this setup will drive the 60's darned clean and practically to ear bleeding levels then the 54TX & 60s should work wonderfully for Antonio. He just needs to figure out what caused the major drop in perceived output. I agree with you that it's not the speakers, it's receiver or source. And if it's the receiver then it's just 'cause something like "midnight mode" got invoked. I vote for source...

#15 of 36 SteveCallas

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Posted December 13 2004 - 06:23 PM

Without a good explanation of what the problem is or how knowledgeable Antonio is in regards to setting up audio equipment, my guess would have to be that he has his receiver stuck in a DSP mode or in Pro Logic.

#16 of 36 John Garcia

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Posted December 14 2004 - 04:37 AM

60s are essentially tall 40s and I ran the 40s (v3) off my Marantz 8300 (120x6) for about a week and a half. For movies they did OK, but when pushed hard, even in 2ch, they sounded like they wanted more power (19x20 room).

My friend has 20s (v2) driven by a Denon 4100. He brought them over to my place to compare them to my various smaller bookshelf speakers, and when I fired them up on my Marantz PM7000 integrated (95wpc @ 8 Ohms) his first comment was "I've never heard them sound this good", and the Marantz isn't even a high end amp.

My speakers, which have a similar sensitivity and driver config as the 40s, except they are 4 Ohm nom., and they definitley needed more power due to the low impedance - adding monoblocks (180w @ 4 Ohms) made a very noticable difference.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#17 of 36 Antonio_B

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Posted December 14 2004 - 09:17 AM

First of all i would like to say that i called the store from where i bought the equipments and apparently they're sending me an audio technician tomorrow.But here's the deal,I will have to pay for the service and not the store...

Now let's talk again about my system.
Guys,since i only have 2 speakers,i always play the sources in "Stereo/Direct" mode.
Now i can say that i partially found the key to my problem but there's still some weird reactions.I found that if the receiver doesn't have a lot of room to breathe it will not perform at its best.I changed my receiver's spot on the top of the rack where there is nothing blocking the ventilated holes on top and on the left side of the receiver.The sound performance improved by 15%.
Now what i find weird is the fact that when i changed the receiver's spot yesterday at night,I noticed some improvements but today i felt like the sound was not as powerful and as clear as yesterday.

I'm seriously thinking of getting an amplifier to help my receiver drive those speakers.Do you think it would help me have a better sound?

Oh and i'm thinking of bi-wiring them,is it a good idea?

Thanks for the sweet answers.

#18 of 36 John Garcia

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Posted December 14 2004 - 10:01 AM

Bi-wiring won't gain you a whole lot. Bi-amping will give you more headroom, but still won't gain you a night and day difference.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#19 of 36 Keiwana

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Posted December 14 2004 - 02:49 PM

I have the 45tx. If you have custom speaker level setting you may lose these setting if you lose electrical power. You have different setting custom1 custom2 etc... you may have hit that button the remote by accident.

#20 of 36 Blkout

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Posted December 14 2004 - 10:23 PM

I have Studio 60's and an Elite 56TXi and I have none of the problems listed above, it sounds absolutely fantastic, even when driven hard for long listening sessions.