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Denon AVR-5805.........Second look:Wow!


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#1 of 97 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted November 14 2004 - 08:35 AM

After a better, second look at this mega receiver I must conclude that this thing has more of the truly useful features then any HT centerpiece I had encountered.While it cost 6 grand, one must realize that many Pre/pros with far less features,and arguably no better performance[sound wise] that cost more or close to it,and you need to supply the amps as well.
I have no whish to restart the "separates Vs. receiver argument,since that is so old, ["it was thrown out from Noah's Ark" 3 times already],but simply just to acknowledge the fact that this thing is as up to date[and more] as it can be,and looks very impressive on paper.

I wonder if anybody has this,or there are any professional reviews out there.

#2 of 97 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted November 18 2004 - 04:55 PM

Yes Lewis, this is quite the statement piece. I wonder if they give you a hand truck to move it with? For the $6,000 they should throw one in. At this point in time, I would probably go with a separate pre/pro and amps just to keep the weight down. The Anthem seems like a popular item and for another 3K I would think one could get a good bit of amp power, even something like Outlaw would probably get the job done for amps.

Still, I like Denon and can't wait till someone actually buys the 5805. I imagine that Sound and Vision will test it next year some time. David Ranada has something going with Denon.

Artie

#3 of 97 OFFLINE   Chris Sherman

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Posted November 18 2004 - 08:39 PM

I personally can't get past the look , let alone the price. It looks like two components stacked one atop the other with a common faceplate. I'd rather spend $1995 on Sherwoods' Newcastle R-965, which is basically their 965 seperates, in a single, more managable chassis, sharing a single torroid for a power supply. I'd still have a killer receiver and four grand left over for say, speakers and or a nice CRT HDTV. Personally I'd have a hard time justifying a two thousand dollar receiver. Still, it will be fun to read a review of this big box. I'm sure it will raise the bar for receivers and maybe some of the technology will trickle down to more affordable models eventually.

#4 of 97 OFFLINE   Nan H

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Posted November 19 2004 - 05:03 PM

if i had the money i would go for the 5805. it has everything i could ever need for years to come. it's just i run powered speakers so i don't need the amplifier in the denon, but if they could make a preamp/pro that is identical to the 5805 (just with no amp, of course) then never-mind a turkey on thanksgiving i'll be getting a denon. i think denon should do that, make a pre/pro that has all the features of the 5805 just without an amp, i'm sure the weight would be dramatically reduced not to mention the size and of course the price tag. with that, the price should come down to the more modest levels where us Meir mortals can see the sticker price and not faint.


but thats just my 3 cents
oh who will now make bender waffels just the way he like's them now.

#5 of 97 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted November 21 2004 - 06:57 AM

Yeah the "knee jerk" reaction of separates are better was my initial reaction as well,but then I started look beyond the fact that this wasn't some American made boutique brand ,and actually started to look what it is. A well though out, loaded with useful and industry setting features,in a big but menegable chassis.It's only current competitions are the other big Japanese flagship receivers from Pioneer[Elite] and Yamaha.The high-end has some catching up to do as usual, in the meantime they will hide behind slogans like "sound comes first",or it is "built for performance not bells and whistles".Hey it's not waht you sell it's how you sell it.

#6 of 97 OFFLINE   BrianAe

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Posted November 22 2004 - 07:39 AM

Lewis,

Out of curiosity, can you list what features it has over the current crop of pre/pros?

thanks.

#7 of 97 OFFLINE   Jeremy Hegna

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Posted November 22 2004 - 08:36 AM

"Out of curiosity, can you list what features it has over the current crop of pre/pros?"

Brian...check out the features at denon.com.

Connectibility is the biggest plus...HDMI, DVI switching, Firewire, more component inputs, PLIIX, 10 AMPS!!!! (guess that's not an issue over pre/pros), Auto setup calibration, twin multi-channel inputs...including a 10 channel input! Tuner station labeling, ethernet port, 3 sub outputs, and there is more...check out the tech notes on the site.

For me, the 5805 is a possibility, because I, too, power my speakers with outboard amps from my upgraded 5800. The 5805 allows the user to configure the 10 amps any way you choose, including bi-amping them giving you 340watts/5 channels. One box solution. I've enjoyed my 5800 for the last 4 years and it's never let me down.

This is an unbelievable piece of gear, IMO. Expensive, you betcha!

Jeremy

#8 of 97 OFFLINE   Nan H

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Posted November 22 2004 - 09:10 AM

Quote:
Yeah the "knee jerk" reaction of separates are better was my initial reaction as well


well i wasn't trying to say that separates are better, i was just stating that i have no use (currently) for any kind of and amp. i'm running mackie hr-824 monitors and they need no amplification at all, there self-powered. one could run them off a "disk-man" if they wanted to. so i wouldn't use the denon's amps at all. but any ways, with the features that the denon has i would love to own one, it just comes down to one main thing... price, yes it has a hefty price tag but after reading more about it such as what jeremy said

Quote:
The 5805 allows the user to configure the 10 amps any way you choose, including bi-amping them giving you 340watts/5 channels


wow, i wish i had passive speakers. i think this is the first receiver that i have ever heard about that had the ability to configure the amp channels in any fashion, oh yea and don't let me forget about the 10 amp channels

oh man i need to win the lottery
oh who will now make bender waffels just the way he like's them now.

#9 of 97 OFFLINE   Rosty

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Posted November 22 2004 - 10:34 AM

Based on my experience with AVR5803 I seriously doubt that AVR5805 can honestly deliver 170W driving 6 channels, not to mention 10...

What I would really love to see, is Dennon making a high end processor/preamplifier with all the features and technology they staffed into AVR5805. That would be a real killer!

#10 of 97 OFFLINE   George Caronan

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Posted November 22 2004 - 11:09 AM

The AVR5805 is a massive unit weighing in at 90+ pounds. It does have a slew of features and processing modes which are up to date. What I like about is that you can have full 5.1 bi-amped system although nowadays that is so 20th century. Posted Image There is a detailed info on it at the Crutchfield site. However, Denon is working on releasing a separates set-up which would isolate the audio processing, video processing and amps altogether in different modules. That is unheard of for a major brand whereupon it would be the one to look for if you are in the separates camp. I had the AVR5800 and have nothing but fond memories of it. Cheers all.

#11 of 97 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted November 22 2004 - 02:03 PM

Quote:
Out of curiosity, can you list what features it has over the current crop of pre/pros?"
What Jeremy said,and the new Audyssey EQ which not the same what Denon been using or anybody else, it also uses the latest Burr Brown Dacs 32 of them in fact in dual diferential mode,and 4 of the latest Texas Intruments DSP chips which are becoming the new fav over the current crop of Analog Devices and Motorolla chips that the "high end" uses.
Quote:
Denon is working on releasing a separates set-up which would isolate the audio processing, video processing and amps altogether in different modules.
Yeah but those are gonna be in the 5 figure prices,so if you thought this was expensive,then............
Quote:
Based on my experience with AVR5803 I seriously doubt that AVR5805 can honestly deliver 170W driving 6 channels, not to mention 10.
You are most certainly right about that which is why I would use it as a pre/pro if I could afford it.BTW current[but presumably not "authorized"] sellers on the net are asking between $4600-$4800 for it,which is very competetive for what it can offer right now.

#12 of 97 OFFLINE   George Caronan

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Posted November 23 2004 - 07:32 AM

Yes, the upcoming Denon separates would be expensive without a doubt. The 5805 is still a monster unit though which I am sure many want or already have. I would love to see it on a head to head comparison with other statement AV receivers such as the Yamaha RX-Z9, Sony STR-DA9000ES, the new modular design Onkyo whose model number escapes me at the moment. Now, that would be interesting.

#13 of 97 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted November 23 2004 - 08:12 AM

Would anyone but me have a problem working with a 92 pound receiver? How do you get it home? I guess you can pay full price and get it delivered by Crutchfield, but who is going to get it out of the box? Once you get it out of the box you might have to put it in one place for a while. If you don't have easy access to the back of the receiver you are going to have a real problem making your connections. To connect the 10 channels of amps you are going to be spending a lot of time behind this thing.

That's why at this point in time I would rather have something that is less than 40 pounds. The front ends of todays receivers, such as the Denon 3805 have enough goodies to satisfy me. If I want to use separate amps, that is always an option.

Artie

#14 of 97 OFFLINE   BrianAe

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Posted November 23 2004 - 09:25 AM

Many of the 7 channel amps out there way 100+ pounds so I don't see this being that bad. The form factor will be more of an issue for most people.

I have to say guys that the feature list is impressive. If the street price comes down this will be more competitive than many are saying.

#15 of 97 OFFLINE   NicholasL

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Posted November 23 2004 - 04:39 PM

The heavier, the better. And if 90lbs is enough to scare you away from a component, either get a sliding rack, or start lifting some weights.

#16 of 97 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted November 24 2004 - 06:09 AM

The 5805 is an electronic/technical tour de force. That sucker has everything. Still, how awkward is a 12 inch high receiver to place and work with. Even though people buy a stack, such as an Outlaw 950/770, the pre only weighs about 25 pounds or less.

Nicholas

Yes the heavier the better. I guess you are right. The 5805 calls for a stand with wheels. Also, it is bad for your back to try to lift monsters like this off the floor by yourself, even though I have the strength to lift more than 50 pounds off the floor. Lifting weights is a different story. Weights are at the proper height to lift safely. Also, I am 55 years old. Lifting is another story at my age.

Artie

#17 of 97 OFFLINE   Mike O'Connell

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Posted November 24 2004 - 06:51 AM

10 Amps - 1 power cord and a maximum amperage draw of 13A per the back panel. With 3A reserved for the switched outlets and all that procesing power this leaves only 10A for power or a max continuous power draw of 1,200 watts at 120 VAC. Sounds pretty current limiting to me.

If they really wanted to beef up the unit they would go to two power cords and not be current limiting.

My 4 ohms Dynaudios (front 3 only) came to life when I added a separate amplifier to the mix (Sherbourn 7/2100A).

The 5803 was current limiting (max 12A draw) driving only 7 channels with three at a 4 ohm load and 4 at an 8 ohm load, I can't imagine how the 5805 could not be current limiting driving 10 channels.

Looks like a great piece of equipment for processing, but for the money you could buy a new Anthem AVM30, a Sherbourn 7/2100A, and have $300 left over for 7-interconnects at authorized dealer street prices and be in the ballpark of the street price for a non-authorized dealer 5805 ($4600).

Yes, it does not have the procesing power of the 5805, but the amp will outlast several interations of processor upgrades and still be going strong.

I think the 5805 will be a tough sell to the informed high-end market.

#18 of 97 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted November 24 2004 - 07:53 AM

Quote:
I think the 5805 will be a tough sell to the informed high-end market.
The high-end" market is no more informed than most of us unthusiasts, who live in the real world,and spend our money on what really matters not on wrist wide powercords and Shakti stones.
Quote:
The 5803 was current limiting (max 12A draw) driving only 7 channels with three at a 4 ohm load and 4 at an 8 ohm load, I can't imagine how the 5805 could not be current limiting driving 10 channels.
I don't think anyone disputes that fact ,however since there are hundreds of speaker models and makes out there,one shouldn't be worried to find many suitable sets,for the Denon,unless there is some kinda rule out there[I've must had missed the memo]that says if you spend over 4k on the centerpiece then you must have a low impedance low efficiency speakers.
Quote:
Looks like a great piece of equipment for processing, but for the money you could buy a new Anthem AVM30, a Sherbourn 7/2100A, and have $300 left over for 7-interconnects at authorized dealer street prices and be in the ballpark of the street price for a non-authorized dealer 5805 ($4600).
Well the D1 has about twice the processing power of the AVM-30 and sells for 5k alone yet it is already "outdated" as far as it's processing chips go and their Dacs,and lacks DPLIIx and any kind of DVI/HDMI switching or any kind of hi-rez multi channel digital input.Yeah I've heard that Anthem is promising those to be addressed in the future,but by then many others will offer that too.The 5805 has only one "enemy" :time.After the CES I think there will be many products that will challange it for even less, be it a receiver or a Pre/pro,but till then..............

#19 of 97 OFFLINE   David Judah

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Posted November 24 2004 - 12:24 PM

The Audyssey processing looks very interesting on paper, although I hope they release the particulars--Audyssey's & TI's sites aren't very forthcoming on the technical aspects. It looks like a leap ahead of the other EQs out there on the Yamahas, Pioneers, and lower end Denon.

According to TI's press release it looks like the technology will be applied to lower end products down the line as well.

I look foward to some reviews on the efficacy of the Audyssey.

DJ

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#20 of 97 OFFLINE   Chris Sherman

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Posted November 24 2004 - 07:23 PM

Denon makes some great receivers. Personally, if I had to spend my own money on a Denon , it would be either the 3805 or 2805. I read a lot of reviews before buying my HK AVR 325 , list $899 (actual $441 from One Call), it was an editors pick and scored an 8.4 rating at Cnet, coincidentally the same score as Denons 3805 although I'd definitely give the nod to the 3805 over the 325,I also know I'm not about to find one for under $450 though. I also have an AVR 225 , $549 list (actual $199 Ebay NIB), in my bedroom 8.0 rating, sound quality "fully comparable" to Denons $799 2802 (according to Cnet). I can't substantiate that claim, as I have not heard the 2802, although I am familiar with my brothers 2801. I realize many Denon fans, at least 5805 fans , will dismiss Cnets "expertise" at reviewing receivers, even though they have given stellar reviews to Denons more affordable stuff. I found Cnets take on the 5805 pretty much falls in line with mine. I feel they should do a full review though. Happy Thanksgiving to all. http://reviews.cnet.....2.html?tag=top


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