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I hate to open this can of worms


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25 replies to this topic

#1 of 26 Travis_R

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Posted November 05 2004 - 08:25 AM

well......here I go let the debate begin

I was leaning very much towards the Sanyo PLV-Z2 for a while but today I previewed an Infocus SP 4805 and was very impressed, so here goes the LCD vs. DLP Question..... I am not able to preview the Sanyo as no one around here sells them, I am going to have a 119" screen in a dark theater, will mainly Play DVD's and Dish Network HD, and Playstation 2 games on occasion. Which of these 2 will give me a better picture, they have 2 completely different resolutions on comparison, but then again they have 2 different display technology, LCD and DLP

oh and I can get a new infocus 4805 for about 1300 from this dealer so its cheaper than the sanyo would be

#2 of 26 Martin Rendall

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Posted November 05 2004 - 10:40 AM

How far back do you plan the seating?

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#3 of 26 Travis_R

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Posted November 05 2004 - 04:58 PM

1st row will be about 12 ft from screen,

when I look at the specs of these two projectors I get confused, Reading them It seems like the PLV-Z2 should Far surpass the abilities of the Infocus, The Z2 has a resolution of WXGA-H (1280 x 720) Vs. the Infocus WVGA (854 x 480), but then the Infocus has a contrast ratio of 2000:1 Vs. the Sanyo 1300:1 I start readin this stuff and it drives me nuts, cuz the picture I saw today on the 4805 was great, but the numbers to me say the sanyo should look even better..........IM SO CONFUSED!!!! "BANGS HEAD ON KEYBOARD"

#4 of 26 Martin Rendall

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Posted November 05 2004 - 07:46 PM

The rule of thumb for the 4805 is that you should sit about 2x the screen. So a 119" screen has a width of 104", which means you should sit about 17 feet back.

Why? There are gaps between the pixels which can be seen if you sit closer than 2x. This phonomenon is commonly called "screen door effect", or SDE for short. At 12 feet, you are looking at an 82" screen. I sit about 14 feet from a 92" screen, and it looks pretty good. At 13 feet I could see the SDE.

To get a DLP projector to look good at your intended size and distance, you really need a 720p resolution, which will run you substantially more money. The accepted rule of thumb for 720p DLP is about 4/3 screen width.

I don't know what the accepted rule of thumb for the Z2 is, but I do know that the Z2 has a greater distance between pixels than an equivalent resolution DLP projector. That is, you need to sit further back than you would with a 720p DLP projector. So the Z2 may not look good at that distance either. Hopefully somebody with a Z2 will chime in.

I have a 4805, but have never seen the Z2, so I can't comment on it, nor directly compare them.

I will say that the 4805 is a great projector, with wonderful colours, very bright, pretty good light spill control, and excellent calibration from the factory. About all you need to do is adjust the basics (contrast, brightness, colour, tint) and you'll be good to go. The downside to the machine is it's low resolution, but that's pretty easy to forget once you see an image... as you've discovered.

Choosing a projector is really challenging. I was just there a few months ago. For me, the great factory calibration, plus positive reports about contrast and colour, won the day over greater resolution.

Martin.
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#5 of 26 Joseph Bolus

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Posted November 05 2004 - 09:52 PM

For most people the outstanding overall picture balance of the 4805, personified by its observable contrast ratio advantage, places it well ahead of the Z2.

Now, the thing is, Sanyo has just released the PLV-Z3!

This projector claims the same 2000:1 contrast ratio as the IF 4805, the same resolution as the Z2, and a new lens technology that almost totally does away with SDE.

Here's a review of the Z3 from Projector Central:

http://www.projector...anyo_plv-z3.htm

Now, in all probability the contrast ratio of the Z3 will not actually match that of the 4805 (the 4805's listed CR spec is after calibration!); but it may be close enough. At the very least you may want to check this projector out before you make the leap!
Joseph
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#6 of 26 Jack Gilvey

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Posted November 06 2004 - 01:04 AM

Quote:
when I look at the specs of these two projectors I get confused, Reading them It seems like the PLV-Z2 should Far surpass the abilities of the Infocus,

The only "spec" which might imply that would be the resolution...only part of the picture. For brightly-lit sports HD stuff (contrast/blacks less important), I'd go with the 720p LCD. DVD movies, I'd go 4805. You make some compromise either way.
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#7 of 26 Travis_R

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Posted November 06 2004 - 05:19 AM

Quote:
Now, the thing is, Sanyo has just released the PLV-Z3!


GREAT! I had it narrowed down to 2.........now im back to 3......... sigh.... lol

#8 of 26 shaniceMW

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Posted November 06 2004 - 05:24 AM

i'm in the same boat. i am so clueless about hometheater. trying to figure if the 5700 has enough differences to choose that over the 4805. people say if you have the money, get the 5700. but i need explanations. i have been through and through the internet researching. *sigh*

#9 of 26 Max Leung

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Posted November 06 2004 - 07:21 AM

You've discovered what many projector owners discovered - resolution isn't everything!

I would go back and demo the projectors again, and try bringing along different DVDs to compare both projectors with (assuming you hadn't done this already). Take your time - pick the projector you feel gives the best image.

I'd try viewing at different seating distances - 10, 12 feet, 15 feet, etc. This will give you an idea of what SDE you can tolerate on both projectors.

Out of the box, the Infocus 4805 will look better - unlike Sanyo, they at least try to calibrate it! This could potentially save you $300 or so on a separate ISF calibration...
Mahatma Gandhi, as you know, walked barefoot most of the time, which produced an impressive set of calluses on his feet. He also ate very little, which made him rather frail and with his odd diet, he suffered from bad breath. This made him...a super-callused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.

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#10 of 26 PeterMano

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Posted November 06 2004 - 07:28 AM

I would be careful in buying a 5700 as the price on this model could fall rapidly if it has not done so already. A similar spec projector like the Benq 7800 with a msrp of $5500 can be had for prices in the $2500 range.

This is an extremely dynamic market as so many new projectors are hitting the market. The panny AE-700, the sanyo z3, sony HS51 among others.

#11 of 26 Travis_R

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Posted November 06 2004 - 06:01 PM

Quote:
I would go back and demo the projectors again
well I could do that, but the only projector this place had on demo was the 4805, all they carry is Infocus, and it was projected on a 96" screen, I would like to see it on a 119" but cant.... the wall thats gonna hold the screen built in my one day to be HT, I dont think I could go any smaller than 119" or it would look to small, room is 18 feet wide!!! and 26 deep!!!

#12 of 26 jimiJames

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Posted November 06 2004 - 10:50 PM

Does the Sanyo PLV-Z3 have keystone correction?

#13 of 26 Travis_R

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Posted November 07 2004 - 06:02 AM

YES!! vertical and horizontal

#14 of 26 Michael Caicedo

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Posted November 08 2004 - 12:38 AM

I own the Z2 and have the identical screen size you're looking to get(119'' dalite hi-power). I've also demoed the 4805 in my living room. The 4805 does have the superior picture, no question in my mind (for DVD movies), but... at that big of a screen and 12ft back the less pixels will be a factor. Move it back to 1.5x-1.8x and it gets better. The z2 screen door effect was better and acceptable at my viewing distance which is 13.5 ft. Also I really needed that screen shift feature. Compromises...

jimiJames, Screen shift makes keystone correction unnecessary.
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#15 of 26 Travis_R

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Posted November 08 2004 - 03:11 AM

so if I go with the new Z3, I should probably be ok on a 119" sitting 13' back.. word on the street is that the SDE is not as noticeable on the Z3

#16 of 26 todbnla

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Posted November 08 2004 - 05:25 AM

Not to make it more confusing:
I purchased an X1 just before the 4805's were released, I tried out the X1 for few weeks but heard a lot of wonderful things about the 4805. So,I sent the X1 back & rec'd my 4805 and could not be happier, I luv this thing!! Best $ I have spent in a while. To think, I was all ready to drop $6k on a plasma too.

Good Luck, it is a hard decision to make...Posted Image
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#17 of 26 Michael Caicedo

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Posted November 08 2004 - 05:45 AM

Quote:
so if I go with the new Z3, I should probably be ok on a 119" sitting 13' back.. word on the street is that the SDE is not as noticeable on the Z3
To my eyes and my wife's, it is very acceptable. Some eagle eyes can't stand any SDE. YMMV. The Panasonic AE-500/700 is the best in this regard, as it has Smooth Screen technology to virtually eliminate SDE from normal viewing distance.
Mike, FL

#18 of 26 Paul_Scott

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Posted November 08 2004 - 07:33 PM

keep in mind, to increase contrast levels and to deepen blacks, (and in some cases to mitigate SDE a bit) some people have had success using polarizing filters.
when i had my LT 150 (XGA DLP) i used a HOYA FL day filter and that seemed to deepen the blacks a bit and smooth over the SDE.
i liked using.
i would suspect, that depending on how hi gain a screen you get, you can really tweak whatever image you have by simply purchasing a $30 camera filter and giving it a good recalibration.

also when elvauating pjs, i would pay particular attentions to the lenses each use.
i up(side)graded from that old XGA to another XGA, but the new projector has several features that make a world of difference to me.
one is 3D reform (key and cornerstone correction- i would hesitate to own another pj without this feature)
and the other is a much finer lens.
the latter makes it possible to perform a very, very fine, subtle defocus without losing detail in the image.
this further helps obviate screendoor and provides a satisfying, creamy, more film like, image.

just a couple things to keep in mind.
i agree that more resolution, while appreciated, is not the be all end all as far as 'watchability' goes.

in general i've found its easier to 'smooth' out the image thru defocusing (assuming the lens is a quality piece), than it is to give the image greater punch and snap (contrast/black levels) with an external filter.

ymmv.
good luck

(btw, some mail order outfits let you demo pjs in home for a couple weeks and return them with a 15% restocking fee- i would seriously consider doing this if i were you. its a big purchase, better to be fully aware of your choices here)

#19 of 26 Travis_R

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Posted November 10 2004 - 11:15 AM

Quote:
some mail order outfits let you demo pjs in home for a couple weeks and return them with a 15% restocking fee


Which sites let you do that, I think I am going to go with the Z3 but if I could preview some I may try that first

#20 of 26 Paul_Scott

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Posted November 10 2004 - 04:24 PM

i know these guys do.
i tired out an HT1000 from them last summer, and then sent it back and had to pay about $150-200 for a re-stocking fee, but it was worth it to satisfy my curiousity.
a couple months later i ended up ordering another one from them and kept that.

i also have to say, on that first return they were extremely courteous and professional.
didn't give me any problems at all.


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