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Buffy / Angel question


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#1 of 231 OFFLINE   Matt Butler

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Posted October 25 2004 - 05:29 AM

I just recently got into Buffy due to HTF recommendations and Netflix.

One question though. Do I need to see Angel? I heard there were some crossover eps. I also heard that Angel wasnt very good.

Any advise would be helpful.

Thanks friends!
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#2 of 231 OFFLINE   Rob Lutter

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Posted October 25 2004 - 05:45 AM

Eh, I'd recommend you go to the Angelriffic thread, but this is kinda a crossover.

Many people (including myself) actually find Angel to be superior to Buffy. It was a much more mature, dark and adult show than Buffy, but still retrained a lot of the best humor that made Buffy great.

The Buffy/Angel crossover doesn't come till Buffy Season 4/Angel Season 1, so if you're just starting on Buffy, you still have 2 more seasons till you have to worry about it (although the Angel crossovers still work quite well without seeing the Buffy episodes first).

#3 of 231 OFFLINE   Scott Kimball

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Posted October 25 2004 - 05:46 AM

A search of the forums will provide many threads on this subject.

There are crossover episodes, but they are constructed in such a way that the series are still separate and distinct. There are only a few off-the-cuff references to the "other half" in a given crossover. The episodes still make sense when viewed without the other series.

There are certainly those who will disagree, but I like Buffy better than Angel - but Angel is good, too. I prefer the first three seasons of Angel - not much of a fan of season 4 or 5.

I know of others who prefer the darkness of Angel over Buffy. For me, Angel season 4 was just too dark.

#4 of 231 OFFLINE   Jason Seaver

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Posted October 25 2004 - 05:46 AM

You don't need either to enjoy the other; even the crossover episodes work well enough on their own.

Quality-wise, there is no reason to avoid Angel at all. It arguably surpassed its predecessor, and certainly had nothing like Buffy's less-than-spectacular final two seasons.
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#5 of 231 OFFLINE   Matt Butler

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Posted October 25 2004 - 06:08 AM

I guess I heard wrong about Angel being bad. I guess Ill wait a bit before starting Angel since im only in S2 of Buffy.
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#6 of 231 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted October 25 2004 - 06:33 AM

Quote:
Many people (including myself) actually find Angel to be superior to Buffy
Watching Buffy thru S6, and I am 3/4 done with S2 of Angel.

So far, I find S2 of Angel more consistent and arc driven than any season of Buffy, which for me is a good thing. If the rest of the show maintains this consistency, it will definitely be better than Buffy.

That said, Buffy has two qualities that Angel doesn't (I don't want to say "is lacking" or "missing" because Angel is fine without them): Snappy dialogue and metaphors. They are present in Angel, but to a much lesser extent.

I also love and miss the camp, freshness and enthusiasm of the characters in the early seasons of Buffy (is this the 98th apocalypse, fuck it, let's go kill some vamps), before it turned into a constently dark "what does it all mean" existential mopfest.

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#7 of 231 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted October 25 2004 - 07:19 AM

Quote:
certainly had nothing like Buffy's less-than-spectacular final two seasons

I guess that's a matter of taste. I consider season 4 of Angel to be the worst single season of television ever produced by Mutant Enemy, easily inferior to any and every season of Buffy (including seasons 4, 6 and 7). But even the weakest season of Angel is eminently watchable and superior to most of what passes for series TV these days.

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#8 of 231 OFFLINE   Burn Rourk

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Posted October 25 2004 - 08:03 AM

Whether you believe 'Angel' is superior or inferior to 'Buffy', either way you have to agree that 'Angel' is still one of the best shows on TV, ever. The fact that it crosses over with 'Buffy' is a lucky bonus. I totally endorse 'Angel' as a TV-on-DVD purchase.

#9 of 231 OFFLINE   Chuck Mayer

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Posted October 25 2004 - 08:53 AM

Both are among the best shows ever put on TV. We can argue the ins and outs (I dislike S6 of Buffy far more than S4 of Angel, etc, etc), but truth be told, they are all worth watching.

Get both.

The crossovers aren't too critical, except for one or two in B4/A1. Even then, you don't HAVE to watch them in sequence.

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#10 of 231 OFFLINE   Matt Butler

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Posted October 25 2004 - 10:17 AM

Thanks for all the feedback guys! Posted Image
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#11 of 231 OFFLINE   Ray H

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Posted October 25 2004 - 03:45 PM

Just to continue: Angel's my favorite TV series.

I've only seen seasons 1-5, about 1/3 of season 6, and about half of season 7 of Buffy so I don't think I can effectively argue the merits of its last two seasons. As it is, Buffy's a definitely great show. I had a ball watching season 5 over the weekend.

With Angel, season 1 is fine but like much of early Buffy, most of it's forgetable. It really picks up with season 2 and IMHO season 3 is brilliant (well...there are a few goofy standalone episodes). I really enjoyed season 4 but I can definitely see why people dislike it. It's very operatic and episodic in nature. There's some great episodes in season 4 but there's also some plotpoints that rub people the wrong way. Personally, I think it's a fun ride. Season 5 starts out pretty light but about midway, it really picks up and ends the series on a high note.

From what I've seen of both, I'd say they're about tied. I'd need to watch/rewatch Seasons 6 & 7 of Buffy though (Season Six should start arriving through Netflix tomorrow). Posted Image

So, yes. Definitely check out Angel. It's by no means bad, hell it's excellent.
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#12 of 231 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted October 25 2004 - 05:01 PM

You can watch Buffy without watching Angel. I watched all of Buffy out or order and in compressed fashion (strange, scattered syndication schedules) without watching a single episode of Angel.

There is only one Buffy episode, somewhere in S6 I think, where it feels like an episode is skipped due to a crossover reference. The start of episode opens with comments about Buffy being back from LA and with implied events being not discussed by the scoobies. I thought for a while that the reruns had skipped a show. I'm now pretty sure they just did a clunky job of referencing a crossover event.

#13 of 231 OFFLINE   Travis_S

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Posted October 25 2004 - 06:08 PM

Quote:
There is only one Buffy episode, somewhere in S6 I think, where it feels like an episode is skipped due to a crossover reference. The start of episode opens with comments about Buffy being back from LA and with implied events being not discussed by the scoobies. I thought for a while that the reruns had skipped a show. I'm now pretty sure they just did a clunky job of referencing a crossover event.

That was a cross over that never happened. They had Buffy and Angel discuss the meeting on their different shows, but the meeting in question was never shown.

#14 of 231 OFFLINE   Don Giro

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Posted October 26 2004 - 12:53 AM

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I consider season 4 of Angel to be the worst single season of television ever produced by Mutant Enemy, easily inferior to any and every season of Buffy (including seasons 4, 6 and 7).


Wonderful, and I'm only midway through season 3, and I find it EXCRUCIATING. Boy, do I wish I had held off on pre-ordering season 4.
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#15 of 231 OFFLINE   Scott_F_S

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Posted October 26 2004 - 04:30 AM

I'm midway through S4 of Angel, and I'm enjoying it a lot more than S3. I LOVED Angel S2 but was disappointed by S3. S4 still not as good as S2, but much better than S3.

#16 of 231 OFFLINE   Matt Butler

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Posted October 26 2004 - 04:36 AM

Quote:
Wonderful, and I'm only midway through season 3, and I find it EXCRUCIATING. Boy, do I wish I had held off on pre-ordering season 4.


Cancel pre-order and Netflix S4.
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#17 of 231 OFFLINE   JohnSmith

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Posted October 26 2004 - 05:35 AM

I also feel Angel dropped in quality. I've watched every single Buffy & Angel episode, personally I would just buy S1 & S2 of Angel- I bought S3 and that's a pretty naff season, but I paid only £17 for it. Seasons 4 & 5 are pretty bad too (Andrew appears in S5 of Angel as well Posted Image ) although the last few episodes of S4 are quite good. The best season in S5 was the muppet episode, and that's about it.

And I really hate S6 of Buffy. S7 is a picked up over S6 (which isn't too hard) Again S1-S3 are great (which I've bought), but it trailed downhill S4 and after that (Hush in S4 was a great episode though)

There's some crossover, but not really that much (ie Willow goes to LA, so does Spike etc) Something in S7 of Buffy crosses over to Angel S5 (won't explain as it's a spoiler)

#18 of 231 OFFLINE   Don Giro

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Posted October 26 2004 - 07:59 AM

Quote:
Cancel pre-order and Netflix S4.


Too late, I got it in the mail when it was released about two months ago.

Things are looking up, though, the last few posts make me look forward to actually watching Angel: S4 now. If only I can get through S3.

As far as Buffy goes, I don't think there's a bad season in the bunch. I haven't seen S7 yet, my only experiences with these shows has been on DVD.
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And when she whispers, your blood shall run cold
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#19 of 231 OFFLINE   TedT

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Posted October 26 2004 - 11:56 AM

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As far as Buffy goes, I don't think there's a bad season in the bunch. I haven't seen S7 yet, my only experiences with these shows has been on DVD.


I'd agree with you but season 5 was just too much of a bummer for every single episode.

Loved season 6. Eagerly awaiting season 7!

#20 of 231 OFFLINE   Matt Stone

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Posted October 26 2004 - 02:16 PM

Wow, I can't imagine hating Angel Season 3. I think I still prefer Season 4, but I think Season 3 is fantastic.
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