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How do you feel...


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45 replies to this topic

#1 of 46 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted October 08 2004 - 06:41 PM

about the thought of going from store to store, buying amps, dvd players, or whatever...using them for whatever purpose and then returning each and everyone within the store's grace period? Are there situations where this is indeed justifiable?

#2 of 46 OFFLINE   Kevin T

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Posted October 08 2004 - 06:51 PM

i guess that's kinda like getting your own personal in home demo for free. it would be nice, but i'd be leery of doing it often as you'll get a bad rep at whichever store you do this at. i can't say i'd do it, but then again i can't say i wouldn't. as far as "justifiable", that's at the discretion of the person doing it.

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#3 of 46 OFFLINE   Carl Johnson

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Posted October 08 2004 - 06:58 PM

It sounds like a waste of time to me. The only way I would return something within the grace period is if there was something wrong with it.

#4 of 46 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted October 08 2004 - 07:55 PM

Any problems with the ethics of it? The item is no longer new but must be sold as used.

#5 of 46 OFFLINE   ScottCHI

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Posted October 08 2004 - 09:58 PM

i have no problem doing it, if it's store policy
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."

#6 of 46 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted October 09 2004 - 02:06 AM

Quote:
Any problems with the ethics of it? The item is no longer new but must be sold as used.
If you do it w/o any intention on keeping it, then it is very unethical. This is primarily why you see places now with 15% restocking fees. Personally I'm all for those if that is what it takes. If you have an intention on keeping it and return it like this because of something you just couldn't deal with(quirk) then that's perfectly fine but you must deal with a restocking fee if that exists. Free In Home Demos are far and few between and generally because you have developed a long relationship with your dealer over time by purchasing gear here or recommending others to buy their gear from there.

#7 of 46 OFFLINE   Roger Kaufmann

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Posted October 09 2004 - 04:42 AM

I fully agree with Shane, if your intention is to return the equipment this is unethical behavior. A 15% restocking fee is a (and IMHO) very low rental fee that should be higher. Stores are in business and like any business they need to make a profit. You are doing what you can by using this behavior to drive them out of business and then wonder why prices are higher or why they're gone later.
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#8 of 46 OFFLINE   ScottCHI

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Posted October 09 2004 - 05:29 AM

if storeA has an amp that you're interested in and storeB also has an amp you're interested in, you're crazy not to utilize every means possible to compare them. it's expected. especially at higher-end shops.

sorry, but i'm not buying a $5,000 amp without first trying it out in my home. and if i don't like it, it's going back. this is expected, too. and common.
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."

#9 of 46 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted October 09 2004 - 06:59 AM

Understand, anyone whose reading this thread, that the person who is doing the buying, has absolutely no intention whatsoever - none - of buying the device for the purposes of owning it. He's going to buy it. Do whatever it is he's going to do with it. Then return it. As to where I'm going with this...well, not just yet.

#10 of 46 OFFLINE   Michael R Price

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Posted October 09 2004 - 07:06 AM

I think now that you've mentioned it, we do want to know where you're going with this. Posted Image

#11 of 46 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted October 09 2004 - 09:52 AM

Well damn Michael, weigh in with your thoughts on this!

#12 of 46 OFFLINE   Kevin T

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Posted October 09 2004 - 01:19 PM

well if you have 0 intention of purchasing the item, the i'd be against it. i was under the impression that the person was demoing several items he / she was interested in, but you just let it be known that the person isn't truly interested. i have no idea why a person would do this. i for one would not buy anything i didn't want to keep if it fulfilled all the functions i need it to.

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#13 of 46 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted October 09 2004 - 02:50 PM

If you're talking about people who "buy" a bigscreen tv just for Superbowl weekend with every intention of returning it after the game, that's unethical as hell.

Similarly, imho, if one buys a dvd recorder with the intention of copying all one's vhs tapes over a weekend and then returning it that's also imho unethical.

I'm no stranger to returning products I'm not happy with or that are defective, done it several times. I've also on a couple of occasions returned non-defective gear but only to upgrade to a more expensive model at the same store.

The closest I've come to anything unethical was in the case of an HDTV receiver.

I had purchased a Toshiba DirecTV HD-capable model and used it for over a year and never gotten decent OTA digital reception.

As more and more local stations started doing HD I decided to do something about it. Replaced my antenna and downlead multiple times and added signal amps to no avail.

I had read that newer models mfg by LG had much better OTA performance. I was still uncertain as to whether a different box would improve my OTA Digital reception, and did not want to have to register a new box with DirecTV and commit to another year's programming (necessary due to DirecTV's subsidizing STB prices).

At the time there was an LG mfg. OTA-only box with the same OTA digital tuning circuitry as the DirecTV boxes--The Zenith 420.

I purchased a Zenith 420 and hooked it up, no DirecTV commitment required as it was OTA only. It performed beautifully, receiving all my local OTA digital channels where the Tosh would only get one or two at most.

I returned the 420 the next day to CC and applied the refund toward the purchase of a new Sony HD-200 from the same store, and have been happy with it ever since.

I did purchase the 420 with the intent of returning it if it did not get good reception, or returning it in favor of the DirecTV box if it did get good reception. In either case I feel like I was justified in that if it didn't perform I should not have to keep it, and if I returned it for a substantially more expensive model at full msrp, the store would suffer minimal if any loss.
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#14 of 46 OFFLINE   ChristopherDAC

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Posted October 09 2004 - 04:14 PM

All ethical considerations aside, changing one's whole setup every 15 or 30 days would be an incredible hassle! The motive of such a person is obscure.

Now, inasmuch as he is availing himself of an accomodation provided in good faith, towards a purpose for which it is not intended, he is comitting a form of fraud; if nothing else, what one might call theft of time. I am not big on the concept of theft of service, but the effect is to permanently have a component in his possession without ever having paid more for it than the float on his money, and perhaps a restocking fee, which is effectively theft of an object. On the other hand, if there is a 15% fee, pretty soon he's going to wish he'd just bought the execrated thing! Demo purposes, as in the case of the never-satisfied customer, are something else again.

One wonders if your subject is using the equipment for some criminal purpose, and doesn't want ever to have anything traceable...


#15 of 46 OFFLINE   James W. Johnson

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Posted October 09 2004 - 10:45 PM

Ive been hasseled for returning things , last year I purchased and returned 4 DVD players inside of 30 days...btw 3 of the 4 were closeouts and demo units...regardless though I basically got treated like dog shit for doing this.

I still go into the store from time to time but I am the customer from hell and I aim to be the biggest asshole I can be.

I did not buy the players just to use them I had full intensions of keeping a player and would loved to have found the perfect player on my first purchase but that did not happen. Even though I did my research in advance I still was not happy with the purchases I made.
In the end I found a player and they did get my money but i'll go thru hell to make damn sure the same ass salesman never gets a commission off me again and the store manager who seems to like this EDITED BY GREGG LOEWEN _ ADMINISTRATOR

#16 of 46 OFFLINE   DorianBryant

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Posted October 10 2004 - 12:26 AM

"store manager who seems to like this edited by gregg loewen
I understand your point but find this to be a little offensive...

#17 of 46 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted October 10 2004 - 01:14 AM

hi guys

Please be careful / polite in your discussion.

thank you,

Gregg Loewen

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#18 of 46 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted October 10 2004 - 03:18 AM

Quote:
I still go into the store from time to time but I am the customer from hell and I aim to be the biggest asshole I can be.
If I were a business owner, I would have a sign on my wall that read "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" and would use it in your case. Not because you returned a bunch of stuff, but because of your quote. As a consumer, I won't go where I feel I'm not wanted. Life is way to short to get that upset over something that is supposed to be a source of enjoyment, not frustration. As for the topic of this thread, I'll only return something if it's defective, was not at all what I expected or the salesman "sold" me something I really didn't want in the first place (which has happened). As for auditioning something for a few days, I've only done that once, and with the stores prior approval.
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#19 of 46 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted October 10 2004 - 03:39 AM

Quote:
Understand, anyone whose reading this thread, that the person who is doing the buying, has absolutely no intention whatsoever - none - of buying the device for the purposes of owning it. He's going to buy it. Do whatever it is he's going to do with it. Then return it. As to where I'm going with this...well, not just yet
He would be both unethical and a scum bucket. IT's probably legal under the stores' guidelines(depending on the place) but its highly unethical.

#20 of 46 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted October 10 2004 - 05:31 AM

OK, now for where I'm going with this but first, my general opinions on buying something without the intent of eventually owning it. In a sense, this is like a rephrasing of the old question, "Do the ends justify the means?"

I personally don't like it. I think its unethical. It drives up the cost of items. It wastes the time of the sales personnel and may even cause commisions to be reversed depending upon the store's policy.

I was recently on Secret's website and just browsing the boards. The boards there are pretty dead but one thread sparked my interest. It had to do with how they get their equipment. Eventually, one of the individuals commented how he had recently returned from going store to store with a van full of DVD players. His wife had apparently given him the look to which the reply was something like, 'Thank god for 30 day return policies.' Its obvious that the purpose of this shopping expedition was to assemble a slew of players, test them, and report the results of the tests on the website. I guess after that, all the players go back into the boxes and the person returns them to the respective stores and gets his credit card adjusted.

Now Secrets does provide a pretty useful service and I commend them for that. However, there is no intention whatsoever that this is being done so that a player can be selected. Rather its to post the results, post the comments, derive a profit from doing so, and this is all at the expense of the various stores that can no longer sell these items as new, but used or open box or whatever their policy is.

So...does everyone still feel this is an ethical practice? Personally, I don't. It's my opinion that an honorable way to do this is to buy the items and then sell them afterwards at the best price they can get. That's the cost of doing business.





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