Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Yamaha S-2500 universal player - DCDi, HDMI, i.Link, video scaling


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
103 replies to this topic

#1 of 104 OFFLINE   EricRWem

EricRWem

    Screenwriter



  • 1,097 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 04 2004
  • Real Name:Adrik

Posted September 18 2004 - 07:16 AM

WOW! MSRP of $749! This is a contender for sure if they can get it out in a timely manner. I keep hearing anywhere from November 2004-February 2005.

I never want a rushed, unfinished product, but it behooves Yamaha to get this thing out in as timely a manner as possible, in lieu of Denon 2910, 3910, Integra 10.5, etc. etc.

http://www.audioholi....hadvds2500.php

http://www.audioholi....D-S2500DVD.php



Pictures:
Front-view & remote :-
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Rear-view :-
Posted Image
Posted Image


Highlights:


Yamaha Electronics Corporation previewed its next generation flagship universal DVD player with Faroudja DCDi processing at CEDIA. The DVD-S2500 will be replacing the DVD-S2300MKII and looks to be a winner already in terms of value and features.


The DVD-S2500 has all the same high-quality features as the DVD-S2300MKII with the addition of some significant upgrades. The DVD-S2500 includes an i.Link digital connection for DVD-Audio, Linear PCM, SA-CD and other high-quality digital audio transfer capabilities. It also supports Video Off Mode, which allows the user to turn off video circuitry while using these enhanced audio formats. Other new video enhancements include a new high-performance video DAC (216MHz/12-bit) and HDMI, which is capable of 480p, 576p, 720p, and 1080i digital video up-conversion



Another feature of the DVD-S2500 is NTSC/PAL progressive scan with DCDi processing by Faroudja, which provides 2:3 pull-down and proven-quality video scaling.



The DVD-S2500 single-disc DVD player handles all popular audio/video formats, including SA-CD, DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, CD, CD-R/RW, picture CDs, MP3 files and JPEG files.



It also takes full advantage of effects channels on DVD-Audio discs, and offers high-quality, SACD-capable DACs for all channels. Its SACD and DVD-Audio circuits are completely independent and optimized for each format, which provides discrete high-quality audio playback. In addition, the DVD-S2500 has independent digital and analog power circuits and transformers. Like the DVD-S2300MKII, the DVD-S2500 comes with an RS-232C port for advanced custom installation capability.The DVD-S2500 will have an MSRP of just $749 (a $250 price drop form the former flagship) and shoud be released around January 2005.

#2 of 104 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

Kevin C Brown

    Producer



  • 5,713 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2000

Posted September 18 2004 - 08:37 AM

I was surprised that it's at a lower price point than the 2300. From what I saw, the 2300 generally got the best reviews of any universal player within its price range. I still wish Yamaha would do one in the $1000 - $1500 range.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...

#3 of 104 OFFLINE   EricRWem

EricRWem

    Screenwriter



  • 1,097 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 04 2004
  • Real Name:Adrik

Posted September 18 2004 - 08:54 AM

Would be nice, but feature wise, this s2500 comes awfully close. It almost offers some compelling evidence that Denon's 3910, for example, might just be a tad overpriced.

I saw the 2300 reviews, too, usually likened up against the Denon 5900 or, more realistically, the 2900. I usually felt like the 2900 was favored in a lot of those reviews.

*shrugs* I really think this market has been at a point, or should be, where I should be able to get something really amazing without having to break a grand.

A lot of this market is still woefully overpriced, imho.

#4 of 104 OFFLINE   Rob Kramer

Rob Kramer

    Second Unit



  • 435 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 30 2004

Posted September 18 2004 - 12:26 PM

My dealer say MSRP is $699.

Thats DCDi, i-link, AND HDMI for $699. Who else can touch that?

Dealer also says due out in November. Other posts from people with different dealers have also confirmed this.

#5 of 104 OFFLINE   EricRWem

EricRWem

    Screenwriter



  • 1,097 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 04 2004
  • Real Name:Adrik

Posted September 18 2004 - 12:56 PM

I just hit you up in the AVS thread about this, too. Seriously, that's an insane deal. I'll probably pull the trigger on the s2500 at that rate. That's the best deal I've seen.

I am hoping to get a s1500 vs. s2500 chart or breakdown of some sort down the road. Look forward to more of your thoughts as you play with the s1500...

#6 of 104 OFFLINE   Rob Kramer

Rob Kramer

    Second Unit



  • 435 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 30 2004

Posted September 18 2004 - 03:24 PM

Quote:
I'll probably pull the trigger on the s2500 at that rate


I think that you had better sign up now. This player will be in high demand, and knowing Yamaha, stock will be low. My dealer only got 2 S1500s in (good thing I signed up in May). Im sure next week I'll be on the S2500 list also.

#7 of 104 OFFLINE   Kwang Suh

Kwang Suh

    Supporting Actor



  • 849 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 04 1999

Posted September 18 2004 - 04:13 PM

What's that other Philips player?

Looks good. I'll just have to keep holding out until someone comes out with the perfect player. Until then I'll just have to enjoy my Mits DD8040.

Is that ilink thingy a Yamaha feature? I don't follow their products at all.

#8 of 104 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

Kevin C Brown

    Producer



  • 5,713 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2000

Posted September 18 2004 - 05:24 PM

Here's what I bet the 3910 has over this player:

o better layer change
o better BM for SACD/DVD-A
o better audio in general

The 2300 also had a problem with YC delay, but hopefully that will be fixed in the 2500.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...

#9 of 104 OFFLINE   EricRWem

EricRWem

    Screenwriter



  • 1,097 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 04 2004
  • Real Name:Adrik

Posted September 19 2004 - 02:12 AM

Kevin, that could be true, but...I wonder how many bugs and threads in the AVS forum the s2500 will command vs. the Denon 3910.

I'll say this much. Yamaha may not be the first out of the gate, but they usually come through with some rock solid and bug free. And as far as audio goes? I'd be willing to trust Yamaha pretty far on this considering the other musical and audio endeavors that company has their hands in. Audio is their first, best strength, so it might be premature to declare the 3910 outright superior this early in the game.

And you're also talking about a pretty signifigant difference in price. ON PAPER (key phrase), the s2500 looks like the much better bargain. Easily.

I think the Denon 3910 is awesome, but I also think it's overpriced. Like most other things in this market still are.

It would help me if I could actually find detailed specs on the s2500, like what kind of DACs it's using, etc. etc.

I am really dismayed at the bug fest the 3910 apparently is. Did Denon rush the gun on that thing? It's starting to look that way, and honestly, when you spend a thousand dollars or more, you should have perfection. No macroblocking issues, no nothing.

DVD has been around long enough that these things simply shouldn't be. Whether that's the chip maker's fault or not, it doesn't matter. It simply shouldn't be.

#10 of 104 OFFLINE   Chris PC

Chris PC

    Producer



  • 3,994 posts
  • Join Date: May 12 2001

Posted September 19 2004 - 09:50 AM

Wonder how this will compare to the Panny S97.
Going from projector to flatscreen for a while.... :P

#11 of 104 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

Kevin C Brown

    Producer



  • 5,713 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2000

Posted September 19 2004 - 10:17 AM

Quote:
I wonder how many bugs and threads in the AVS forum the s2500 will command vs. the Denon 3910.

Probably not many. For whatever reason, Yamaha players have never commanded the attention and sales that say Pioneer and Denon have.

In terms of comparing players at two different prices, there is always the law of diminishing returns to think about. Value is defined by each individual user. For you, maybe the 3910 is overpriced. For me, I need a player that has strong audio performance and I judge the 3910 to be priced about right (especially with the discount I can get).

One issue with the 2300 I remember, is that S&V measured a higher than normal noise floor, for example.

3910 bugs? This user has reported that with a properly calibrated display, the macroblocking defect is eliminated:

http://www.avsforum.....69#post4374569

The only other bug that I have seen mentioned, is that *one* person has had dropouts with the DTS soundtrack on *one* DVD, Kill Bill Vol 2, using specifically the i.Link audio output. I am sure that if this turns out to be a true "bug", then Denon will come out with a firmware fix for it. I never remember Yamaha fixing the YC delay problem with the 2300 for example...

I do hope that the 2500 is a good player. Competition is always a good thing. But I also think this player will be more than likely compared to the 2910 and not the 3910. After all, quite some number of users have already commented on the 3910's performance approaching that (and in some instances surpassing) the 5900.

Secret's DVD player reviews have many times shown that the cost of a player has no influence on video performance. However, audio performance is a different beast. Dedicated power supplies, DACs, anti-aliasing filters, op amps, mechanical/EMI/RF isolation, vibration control, etc. All these items do not come cheaply.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...

#12 of 104 OFFLINE   EricRWem

EricRWem

    Screenwriter



  • 1,097 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 04 2004
  • Real Name:Adrik

Posted September 19 2004 - 11:51 AM

Awesome post, Kevin. Allow me to respond:

Quote:
Probably not many. For whatever reason, Yamaha players have never commanded the attention and sales that say Pioneer and Denon have.

I think it's because Yamaha just isn't that well known in that area. Their first and best calling, and what their bread and butter ever shall be, is audio.

This is a bonus for them, although, I'm not trying to imply that they're going to put out some lazy, half-assed product.

Quote:

In terms of comparing players at two different prices, there is always the law of diminishing returns to think about. Value is defined by each individual user. For you, maybe the 3910 is overpriced. For me, I need a player that has strong audio performance and I judge the 3910 to be priced about right (especially with the discount I can get).


STOP! Right there. You said the magic phrase, "At the discount I can get." I probably would jump in a second if I had access to any kind of discounts.

Here's where I'm at: My one local dealer for Denon sucks. Since there's no competiton anywhere nearby, he can sit on MSRP and just chuckle. The 7 percent sales tax doesn't help, either.

My best choice is to go Crutchfields. They're a great company. I pay MSRP, but no tax or shipping and I get all the nice intangibles that go with it.

My fear on this is: These players keeping changing and getting better every year. I know that's the name of the game, but what am I going to do with my $1200+ Denon 3910 in 2-3 years when I'm staring down HD-DVD? I don't want to spend money on something that's obsolete in such a short amount of time. Or am I way off on that?

Quote:

One issue with the 2300 I remember, is that S&V measured a higher than normal noise floor, for example.

Yes. The 2300, especially the mark 1, which I believe CNET reviewed, among others, makes note of some of these flaws. The mark 2 is a better machine. Not sure what the H02 error is about, but that's just recently come up.

Quote:

3910 bugs? This user has reported that with a properly calibrated display, the macroblocking defect is eliminated:

http://www.avsforum....569#post4374569

If you go into one of those threads right now, I backed up one guy who asked a much overdue question: "How much of this is anal retentive vs. practical conditions?"

He's so right! How many of these nitpicks that people pull off using DVE or Avia am I even going to notice under PRACTICAL useage. I doubt I'd see a thing myself.

That made me feel a lot better, overall, about buying any of these new machines.

I guess what I'm looking at, too is this: I currently own the Zenith 318 and love it. It's connected via DVI to a Zenith c32v37 4:3 HD CRT tube. A nice TV, but certainly not a super high flying plasma, DLP, etc. etc.

The PQ is great on this setup. The real trick is: Will the 3910 REALLY have that much better of a PQ than the Zenith? (DVI in both cases.)

Certainly audio wise, I'm on a new planet, and audio is VERY important to me for music and HT. I'd like to have something better than the Zenith for my audio use. Right now, the Zenith is doing everything. It's nice, but it's not real earth shattering for music.

Quote:

The only other bug that I have seen mentioned, is that *one* person has had dropouts with the DTS soundtrack on *one* DVD, Kill Bill Vol 2, using specifically the i.Link audio output. I am sure that if this turns out to be a true "bug", then Denon will come out with a firmware fix for it. I never remember Yamaha fixing the YC delay problem with the 2300 for example...

Well sure. I'm not trying to take shots on anyone. EVERY company is going to have bad luck with defective units. It's simply impossible to avoid.

I have been told that people can contact Yamaha about the 2300 YC delay problem and probably mail the unit in or get a firmware upgrade. Not sure how authoritative that is, though, so don't take it to the bank.

Quote:

I do hope that the 2500 is a good player. Competition is always a good thing. But I also think this player will be more than likely compared to the 2910 and not the 3910. After all, quite some number of users have already commented on the 3910's performance approaching that (and in some instances surpassing) the 5900.

Which floors me. If that machine really is AT LEAST equal to the 5900, then I start really drooling at it even at its MSRP.

Now...what about the 5910? Posted Image

Quote:

Secret's DVD player reviews have many times shown that the cost of a player has no influence on video performance. However, audio performance is a different beast. Dedicated power supplies, DACs, anti-aliasing filters, op amps, mechanical/EMI/RF isolation, vibration control, etc. All these items do not come cheaply.

YES! Absolutely correct. I think what will make me feel better is to wait for the Secrets shootout and reviews for the 3910 and some of these other new units. Then I probably would feel more confident in what I'm doing.

I think I've given you, and anyone else who actually read this small novel, a fair enough picture about the spot I'm in right now. Ya feeling me? Posted Image

Granted, I could throw the money down now and get the 3910 and I'm SURE I'd be blown away without question.

Just have to get past some of this double guessing and overthinking that I'm doing.

I usually am like this, but then I end up ultimately making good decisions, so, *fingers crossed*, hopefully this trend holds. Posted Image

#13 of 104 OFFLINE   Rob Kramer

Rob Kramer

    Second Unit



  • 435 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 30 2004

Posted September 19 2004 - 01:12 PM

Guys -

Please note that the 2300 is based on the Pioneer 45a, the 2500 is a Philips player.

I dont think that you can relate characteristics from one player to another.

#14 of 104 OFFLINE   LanceJ

LanceJ

    Producer



  • 3,168 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 26 2002

Posted September 19 2004 - 04:24 PM

Those are two different players pictured above.

Which one is the 2500?

#15 of 104 OFFLINE   FeisalK

FeisalK

    Screenwriter



  • 1,245 posts
  • Join Date: May 01 2003

Posted September 19 2004 - 04:36 PM

I think the Yamaha is the black one .. white looks liek Philips
>
DVD-A registry for hirez/surround audio
Bluray, DVD-Audio, DAD/HDAD, DualDisc, MVI

#16 of 104 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

Kevin C Brown

    Producer



  • 5,713 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2000

Posted September 19 2004 - 06:16 PM

Rob- The 2300 is based on a Panasonic platform, not the 45a. If you check Secrets, you'll see how poorly the 45a did compared to the 2300:

http://www.hometheat....deInt=0&mpeg=0

(Yammie- 84 pts, 45a- 34 pts. Make sure to read the 2 descriptions too.)

Eric- Honestly Posted Image, to me it sounds like you have "upgradeitis". Depending on your needs for audio, if I was in your shoes, I'd be tempted to hold on to the Zenith a little longer until there was something out that *clearly* beats it.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...

#17 of 104 OFFLINE   EricRWem

EricRWem

    Screenwriter



  • 1,097 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 04 2004
  • Real Name:Adrik

Posted September 20 2004 - 02:10 AM

Thanks, Kevin.

Oh btw, Kris Deering in AVS has been dropping a few hints about a new Yamaha flagship player that will superior to the s2500 that is set to directly clash against the Denon 5910. He says the Denon 5910 will be shown at the CES.

He's not counting on the Yamaha to make the CES as of yet. Heh, it'll probably be out in 2006 if we go by the usual Yamaha track record. Posted Image

What's it going to be, the s3000?

#18 of 104 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

Kevin C Brown

    Producer



  • 5,713 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2000

Posted September 20 2004 - 06:13 PM

I don't think Kris really said the Yamaha flagship would compete directly with the 5910. I still bet it will list for around $1500 or less. Posted Image
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...

#19 of 104 OFFLINE   EricRWem

EricRWem

    Screenwriter



  • 1,097 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 04 2004
  • Real Name:Adrik

Posted September 21 2004 - 02:50 AM

Could be. Maybe that's just the way I read Kris, since he kind of mentioned both in the same breath. My mistake.

Let me rephrase it thusly:"Yamaha probably hopes/wants this thing to compete with the 5910." That's strictly me talking. Posted Image

#20 of 104 OFFLINE   Rob Kramer

Rob Kramer

    Second Unit



  • 435 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 30 2004

Posted September 21 2004 - 06:33 AM

I would think that yamaha would rather steal all of the 3910 customers, as there are probably hundreds of 3910 buyers for each 5910 buyer


Back to Blu-ray, DVD, LD, Tivo, Satellite and Other Playback Devices



Forum Nav Content I Follow