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Behold, the true power of the Gamecube


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#41 of 88 OFFLINE   AndyVX

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Posted August 01 2001 - 06:58 PM

A new Zelda and Mario game has always been enough for me to justify the purchase of a Nintendo console. Throw in some other games (Wave Race, Rogue Leader, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness at/near launch) and I'll line up for days to get the system!

Just to follow up on what was being talked about before... there is absolutely NO reason why Xbox couldn't handle Rogue Leader if it were being developed from scratch. All that bullshit that I've heard from Factor 5 saying they've tried to get it running on Xbox but couldn't (saying the Xbox is not a "good enough" system) is total B.S! The Xbox is a more powerful system then the Gamecube, it just might take a little more time in programming to get the power out of the system.

Granted, I don't see myself buying a Xbox, but I'll certainly defend a console when it's getting a bum-rap for no reason other then "fanboyish" talk.

That's just my opinion anyways...


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#42 of 88 OFFLINE   Sean Oneil

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Posted August 01 2001 - 08:28 PM

Actually, the consensus within the programming community is that the X-Box is the easiest of the next generation systems to code for, because it so closely resembles a PC.

The talk about 'Rogue Leader' being too much code for the X-Box to handle sounds more like blatent propaganda from a development house who may have special (monetary) interest in the GCN's success.

Also, don't be so quick to pass most Americans off as Mario and Zelda lemmings who will buy a Nintendo system just so they can play the latest version of a franchise title. They know a good thing just as easily as you do, and not everyone in America is a mindless fanboy. (I was not referring to you Andy) Also, the popularity of said franchises is not what it used to be. Mario and Zelda were huge phenomenons when I was younger (when they were brand new on the 8-bit NES) but as the fans who were so deeply enthralled with those games have matured, they have moved on to broader gaming horizons. I for one am sick and tired of the Mario-esque 'platformer' and Zelda was never really the king of RPG's in my book, so I (like most) will not buy a new system just to play another re-hash of these titles with better graphics. Nintendo's biggest fault may be that they refuse to change with the times and break any new ground. They are still clinging to some of the same tired old concepts. I loved my Nintendo systems of yore (NES - SNES) but since those days the big 'N' has pretty much gone downhill fast. When Squaresoft left, It was over. The End.

The reason FF X looks so darn good is because the artists at Squaresoft are IMHO the best in the world at what they do (right up there with Namco) and if Bill Gates was smart, he would simply take that $500 million advertising budget and use it to pay-off Squaresoft and lock them in to make FF games exclusively for the X-Box. He should pay off EVERY major and talented Dev house to secure the best games for the Box. Short of a miracle, getting FF and Squaresoft on the X-Box is the only thing I can see which would make the X-Box a success in Japan.



[Edited last by Sean Oneil on August 02, 2001 at 03:31 AM]

#43 of 88 ONLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted August 02 2001 - 02:39 AM

If a videogame is gorgeous and plays well (like FFX does, from what I hear) what does it matter if it is on the most powerful hardware?

The PS2 doesn't come with a HDD, ethernet modem, clunky controller, huge size, the inability to surf the internet, the inability to play PS1 games, the inability to play DVDs, or the inability to play CDs. The X-Box does. Pull out every added function from the X-Box (everything but 4 controller ports, its power, one I/O port, and a controller) and it would be WAY cheaper than it is going to be. Then, it might be worth it, in my opinion. The GC is made for just gaming, and it doesn't need the HDD. You can buy a memory card, a game, and a GCN for less than an X-Box or a PS2.

As for kiddie games, it doesn't make it kiddie because of the graphics or the title. If it is like Elmo's ABCs, then it is kiddie. Banjo-Kazooie, Mario64, Donkey Kong 64, and many other N64 games weren't kiddie games, they just weren't "adult" games. They were fun, and thats all that really mattered to me.

The PS2 and GCN do not have any online game being made until online is available. Sony will have it first, followed by probably Microsoft, then Nintendo. Many of the good X-Box games are online, making them pointless until its available.

The X-Box has many games, but we know the GCN and PS2 will have many GOOD games, that is the difference. The X-Box does NOT have exclusivity to DoA3, any of the Sega games, or the Matrix games. They will probably be on PS2 within a year of their releases on X-Box.

Super Mario 64 changed platform games forever, and Zelda: Ocarina of Time is considered to be one of the top 10 best games EVER by many people. I don't know, but I think that is pretty good for some old series'. Keep in mind that Shigeru Miyamoto and Nintendo have many tricks up their sleeves, so just wait and see what develops.

The GCN is supposedly easier to program for than the X-Box. I guess Nintendo learned from its mistakes, whereas MS hasn't made any, yet.

Once again, graphics don't make the games, and sub-par graphics can still have good games behind them.

#44 of 88 OFFLINE   Camp

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Posted August 02 2001 - 03:08 AM

[quote]Also, the popularity of said franchises is not what it used to be. Mario and Zelda were huge phenomenons when I was younger (when they were brand new on the 8-bit NES) but as the fans who were so deeply enthralled with those games have matured, they have moved on to broader gaming horizons.[quote]

Sean, I think you're limiting your outlook a bit much. Zelda and Mario are just as huge now as they ever were. Perhaps more so now that there are moms and dads out there who played the originals.

Quote:
Nintendo's biggest fault may be that they refuse to change with the times and break any new ground. They are still clinging to some of the same tired old concepts.

I cannot disagree more. Nintendo is a breath of fresh air from a gameplay perspective. They may use the same characters over and over but they have done an excellent job of advancing the state of game design and gameplay.



#45 of 88 OFFLINE   Dan Brecher

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Posted August 02 2001 - 03:28 AM

Quote:
I cannot disagree more. Nintendo is a breath of fresh air from a gameplay perspective. They may use the same characters over and over but they have done an excellent job of advancing the state of game design and gameplay.

Absolutely agree. As technology moves on Nintendo have always ensured that future games are leaps and bounds ahead in terms of innovation over their predecessors, regardless of wether they feature the same characters or not. To me this is somewhat the opposite of what Sony's consoles have often provided...

Dan (UK)



[Edited last by Dan Brecher on August 02, 2001 at 10:29 AM]

#46 of 88 OFFLINE   Gary King

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Posted August 02 2001 - 04:05 AM

Quote:
If a videogame is gorgeous and plays well (like FFX does, from what I hear) what does it matter if it is on the most powerful hardware?

Put FFX on S-Video, and it gets a lot less gorgeous.

#47 of 88 OFFLINE   Adam Nixon

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Posted August 02 2001 - 06:33 AM

Wouldn't that hold true for all games and consoles, though? I've used S-video on every console I own, and it's impossible to ever go back to a composite connection afterwards. Textures and models reveal more "jaggies," but the overall crispness of the video image is FAR preferable to less detail.

#48 of 88 OFFLINE   Pete_S

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Posted August 02 2001 - 06:58 AM

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The PS2 and GCN do not have any online game being made until online is available.

Not entirely true. SEGA's got Phantasy Star Online 2 in the works for the Cube, and I'm sure they'll be ready to release it whenever Nintendo is ready to release their modem and broadband adapter. It would be great if this was one of the secrets Nintendo was sitting on until Spaceworld, but I still suspect it'll be early- to mid-2002 before we see much online stuff going for the GameCube. Oh, well, I'll have plenty of great games to play by myself until then. Posted Image

#49 of 88 OFFLINE   Troy LaMont

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Posted August 02 2001 - 08:27 AM

Boooyah!

Gary King dropped the tech specs on page 1! You go boy!

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#50 of 88 OFFLINE   Gary King

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Posted August 02 2001 - 08:38 AM

FFX has some of the worst issues with texture aliasing on the PS2 that I've seen. From just the right distance (in the game, not from your TV screen), the game is beautiful; however, once the camera starts moving, the high-frequency textures that help make such pretty still images flicker pretty wildly.

On a perfectly calibrated TV, the aliasing is noticeable but bearable on S-Video. With any sharpness on the TV at all, though, it can look dreadful at times.

An Xbox under the same conditions (same TV, same connection, same level of calibration) has far fewer problems.

#51 of 88 OFFLINE   pitchman

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Posted August 02 2001 - 09:15 AM

Quote:
With any sharpness on the TV at all, though, it can look dreadful at times. An Xbox under the same conditions (same TV, same connection, same level of calibration) has far fewer problems.

And you know this for certain from all of the time you've spent playing FFX on your Xbox? Posted Image

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#52 of 88 OFFLINE   Gary King

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Posted August 02 2001 - 09:56 AM

Nope-

Based on all the time I've spent playing FFX, and all the time I've spent working with high-frequency textures on the Xbox.

#53 of 88 OFFLINE   Adam Nixon

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Posted August 02 2001 - 10:23 AM

So you've played FFX??? Don't leave us hanging, how is it? (Other than video artifacts, PS2 probs, etc.)

#54 of 88 ONLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted August 02 2001 - 10:25 AM

First of all, FFX is a great game. They have time to fix it for the American release. Did you play it on a modded PS2 or a jap PS2? Even if it has problems, then you take out the S-Video. Its a great game, so one or two bad things about it shouldn't ruin it.

Also, what games are coming out for X-Box that we know to be good, if not great, in the gameplay department? Nintendo NEVER fails with gameplay, and the PS2 has games coming out that people have already played demos of (SH2, MGS2, FFX, Devil May Cry, Run Like Hell). What great games are there for the X-Box? The only thing I have heard is that the X-Box games look great from a visual standpoint. Few people have played X-Box games, and fewer have played GameCube games, yet people generally say that they don't like the X-Box as much as they thought they would (thats my experience of what people tell me or what I have read) or don't like it. Some like DoA3, but I don't see how they couldn't since its becoming the main X-Box game to want, plus its from the great DoA series. The GameCube has a dozen screenshots released for Rogue Leader, an there is a ton of buzz. The X-Box has been releasing screenshots since GameStock (nice lens flare, eh?) and yet they haven't generated the kind of buzz that Nintendo has.

Phantasy Star Online ver. 2 for GCN is not coming out for a while. The demo at E3 was put together in a month, and it already looked better than PSOv2 for DC in some aspects. The game will not be a launch game, cuz that would be stupid. It will probably come out near the modem/internet service availability.

#55 of 88 OFFLINE   Michael Hudson

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Posted August 02 2001 - 10:30 AM

To the person who said the game has 5.1 sound do you have any info to back this up. I heard that the game cube was not going to have dolby digital.

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#56 of 88 OFFLINE   Adam Nixon

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Posted August 02 2001 - 10:36 AM

I'm not the one who posted it, but I did read in an IGN transcript that Factor 5 WILL have 5.1 sound. See link:
http://cube.ign.com/news/37039.html

I think IGN is under a Non-Disclosure agreement.

However, it is NOT Dolby or DTS 5.1, but a proprietary format that will probably only be heard on Gamecube. If anyone remembers the original Rogue Squadron, Factor 5 developed MOSFX (I think that's what it was called) which was kind of like Dolby Prologic.

My guess is that this will be very similar to Prologic II, which would explain why the Gamecube doesn't need an optical or coax jack.



[Edited last by Adam Nixon on August 02, 2001 at 05:37 PM]

#57 of 88 OFFLINE   Gary King

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Posted August 02 2001 - 10:48 AM

FFX is good; however, there are too many cutscenes. In one hour long segment of the game, I counted 45+ minutes of cutscenes. The battle system and sphere map are great concepts, I just wish there were more of them (how's *that* for a change). Granted, I'm only about 8 hours in, so the game could open up later on (I still haven't been able to do any real exploration or traveling on my own).

Morgan - I own a Japanese (and NA, but that's irrelevant) PS2, and I do play in composite.

As for Xbox games -- Halo rocks, Fuzion Frenzy is great 4-player fun, Munch plays great, DoA3 is a shoe-in, and I have high expectations for Bloodwake, Project Gotham, Mad Dash, Unreal Championship, Air Force Delta Storm, and JSRF. There are definitely enough games announced now to make the Xbox an attractive console, and there are some games that have quite a bit of potential (Nightcaster, WW2, Panzer Dragoon, etc.).

[Edited last by Gary King on August 02, 2001 at 05:53 PM]

#58 of 88 ONLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted August 02 2001 - 11:52 AM

I heard that FFX is very linear in the beginning (as in first 23 hours or so) but opens up later and gets to be one of the best games ever. I also heard its very fun and the ending is very good. Then again, I heard that people can beat the game in less than 10 hours if you know what you're doing. I heard it can take over 60 if you do everything and level your characters up totally using the Sphere system (also, the sphere system allows you to have more than 4 commands, like in FF7 where you could have like 10 commands for battle).

Videogames.com did a 5 page article on Rogue Leader and said that they were told that RL would have 5.1

I have a question about FFX: the way that the story unfolds, is it as good as previous games with cinematic cutscenes, like the petrifying forest of FF9 or the battle between the Gardens in FF8, or the escape from Midgar in FF7?

#59 of 88 OFFLINE   Sean Oneil

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Posted August 02 2001 - 08:22 PM

The sales of the Nintendo 64 would tend to back up my point, in that most gamers ARE getting tired of Nintendos concepts. So they may have pushed the envelope with Mario 64, I will not deny that. The point I was making is that the concepts are tired. Take Mario or Link and drop them into a 3D world and it is still Mario and Link with a Z-axis. Again, the lackluster sales of the N64 would seem to point to others sharing my perspective. I am happy that you are able to enjoy the games though, and am not saying they are bad ...just been there, done that. Nintendo needs to push on Conceptually and not just Technically with the GC, or they will be in serious trouble.



#60 of 88 ONLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted August 02 2001 - 08:28 PM

Actually, Super Mario 64 is way different than Mario for NES. Same for Zelda. The games continue to change, its just not a Final Fantasy IX to Final Fantasy X dramatic change (for those who don't know, they are VERY different in many ways). The only similarities are the storylines and some characters. Actually, Nintendo has 6 versions of handheld Pokemon. How many copies have they collectively sold? How long has it been the same thing? If you can give me actual aspects of Nintendo series' that have stayed the same (besides swords, jumping, and koopas) then I will not argue the point that Nintendo does change their games' gameplay and that it isn't just the same old been there done that.


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