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Where are people putting their projector in relation to seating area?


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17 replies to this topic

#1 of 18 OFFLINE   Bobby C

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Posted September 06 2004 - 05:34 AM

Hi,

I'm starting to wire my HT, the room is 12x19. My seating area is (most likely) going to be 13' from the screen, with a screen size of 86" wide (1.85 ratio).

I have some lattidue as to where I install the overhead projector - are there particular 'rules of thumb' for where the PJ should be? Does sound come into play (most likely the PJ will be a Sanyo Z2)? Any other factors? I was going to have my HT amp, etc. maybe 8' from the screen (to the left side), but actually, I can move that in back of the seating area so that it is roughly in line with the PJ so my cabling is shorter.

Thanks!
Bob

#2 of 18 OFFLINE   Scott Tucker

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Posted September 06 2004 - 12:09 PM

Put the projector as far away from you as possible, so you don't have to hear it as bad. I put my components on the left side and really like it.
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#3 of 18 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted September 07 2004 - 06:52 AM

The lens throw will dictate where the projector can go in the room in relation to the screen size. I would try to locate the projector in the middle of this range assuming it's not right overhead. Here is the link to a spreadsheet you can download from Infocus to help you:

http://www.infocus.c....Calculator.xls

You will need to edit the sheet by changing the formula in cells c19 and c20 to match your projectors through range. The current formulas reflect the 7200s through range .67 to .48

#4 of 18 OFFLINE   Luke_Y

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Posted September 08 2004 - 05:03 AM

Well, if it helps any, the calculator at ProjectorCentral puts the Z2 9.8-12.8 feet from the screen for a 86" wide screen. So you will have to mount somewhere in that range.

Calculator
Luke

#5 of 18 OFFLINE   Bobby C

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Posted September 08 2004 - 05:07 AM

Thanks for the replies. Luke - thanks for the link. That means the pj will be pretty close the main seating area - I may need to build a hush box.

#6 of 18 OFFLINE   Ron-P

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Posted September 08 2004 - 10:04 AM

You will not need to build a hush box. My Panny 200u is rated at 28.0 db and your Z2 is rated at 26.0. My Panny is mounted directly over the top of my front row of seating. It's not even noticeable it's so quite.

My front row is 9' and my back row is 12' from my 85" 16:9 screen.
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#7 of 18 OFFLINE   Jay Mitchosky

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Posted September 08 2004 - 10:31 AM

Quote:
The lens throw will dictate where the projector can go in the room in relation to the screen size. I would try to locate the projector in the middle of this range assuming it's not right overhead.
Adam beat me to it. The throw determines everything, and unfortunately most projectors have a pretty limited range. The longest throws come from projectors designed to accomodate different lenses for different distances (ex. Marantz, Runco). Technologies have an impact as well - D-ILA seems to allow for longer throws then DLP for example.

What compounds these problems is that almost all projectors must be positioned such that the center of the lens is lined up with the top edge of the screen. Very, very few actually allow for a lens shift to allow for placement above the screen (the only one I can reference immediately is the Dwin TV3). Why is this cool? You can flush mount to the ceiling, keeping the projector out of the way, while not having to impose moire-inducing keystone correction. Many projectors offer lens shift for between the top and bottom of the screen, which in my opinion is completely useless.

Right now I'm considering two projection options (purchase is some time down the road so will change with technology). The Dwin is my favored solution as I love the idea of flush mounting to the ceiling. Brilliant. This should be the de facto standard for all fixed panel projectors in my opinion. Alternatively the Marantz with the long throw lens option. Requires drop installation to line up with the screen edge but has exceptionally long throw (I think over 20 feet for an 87" wide screen if I recall) so it can be placed far enough back that it's not as much of a problem.

If I were laying my cash on the table right now it would likely be for the Dwin largely because of its installation flexibility.

ADDENDUM: Looking at that InFocus chart it seems they also offer usable lens shift above the screen. Cool. Although if I recall that projector was criticized for excessive image noise (has that been resolved in updated designs?).
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#8 of 18 OFFLINE   Jon Bell

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Posted September 09 2004 - 04:30 AM

My Z-2 is located directly overhead. Both seating and pj are about 11.5 feet from the screen (80"x45"). The ceiling is about 90" high, so the pj is about 84" from the floor. The Z-2 is very quiet. I have only noticed fan noise once, and it wasn't very loud (the pj had been on for about 4 hours). I'll admit that it was a little distracting, but not that bad. If you could mount yours either a little in front or a little behind the seating, you will probably rarely if ever hear the fan.

With the Z-2's lens sift and keystone correction, having it hanging from the ceiling is no problem at all. Jay, I'm curious-- why do you consider the lens shift useless? I find it to be very useful bacause you don't have to fool around with the projector mount in order to get the image exactly where you want it.

#9 of 18 OFFLINE   Bobby C

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Posted September 09 2004 - 04:38 AM

Jon,

Thanks for the follow up - just what I needed to hear! You sound like you're pretty close to my setup in terms of distance & screen size. The biggest difference, however, is my ceiling height - I have low (basement) ceilings - around 82". Hope that doesn't cause too much of a problem - luckily, I'm less than 6'6"!

#10 of 18 OFFLINE   Stephen Heidt

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Posted September 09 2004 - 05:03 AM

Jon, reading Jay's reply, he appeared to be talking about the lens shift capability that some projectors have to allow you to place the projector at any height BETWEEN the top and bottom edges of the screen. However, in that case, if you are ceiling mounting the projector, who needs it, since how often is somebody going to hang the projector down BETWEEN the top and bottom edge?

Also, the projectors that allow lens shift and keystone correction to allow for mounting above the top edge or below the bottom edge, are going to inherently cause a degraded image. It may not be as noticeable on some projectors, but anytime keystone correction is used, the image will be at least slightly worse than doing a normal mounting method. That is why it is recommneded to avoid keystone correction in most every situation.

#11 of 18 OFFLINE   Jon Bell

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Posted September 09 2004 - 06:19 AM

Bobby, you're welcome. Since your ceiling is lower than mine, just make sure your tall friends don't collide with your projector. In my setup, the ceiling mount directly above the seating was the only way I could do it because of the size/ shape of the room and because of other physical factors (a big beam bisects the room and an a/c duct runs the length of the projector wall). I guess my point is that you should be able to make it work, and the Z-2 has a lot of flexibility.

Stephen-- thanks for the clarification. I actually haven't noticed any image degradation using keystone or lens shift, so it may be that I don't have as critical an eye as some others.

#12 of 18 OFFLINE   Bobby C

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Posted September 09 2004 - 06:24 AM

Hey Jon - How is your Z2 mounted? You make your own mount or did you buy one? Is it flush mounted or hand down? If it isn't flush, how much headroom does it take up (measuring from the ceiling down)?

Thanks!

#13 of 18 OFFLINE   Ron-P

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Posted September 09 2004 - 06:35 AM

Bobby, you can DIY your own mount very inexpensively. I used 1.5" galvanized pipe with floor flanges and 3/4" MDF for the plates. Worked perfectly and the cost was about $12.

Click HERE for a pic of the PJ mount.
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#14 of 18 OFFLINE   Bobby C

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Posted September 09 2004 - 06:51 AM

Ron - looks nicePosted Image. In my case, since I have such a low ceiling, I'll need to make it more flush with the ceiling.

By the way, is that some sort of conditioner or surge protector it's plugged into? I've never seen one that small.

#15 of 18 OFFLINE   Ron-P

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Posted September 09 2004 - 08:14 AM

Thanks Bobby. It's a Monster Surge Protector. Here's a link to it over at Partsexpress.com.

http://www.partsexpr....number=185-166
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#16 of 18 OFFLINE   Jon Bell

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Posted September 09 2004 - 09:54 AM

Bobby, for my mount, I went the lazy route and bought one off of ebay for about $100. There are a lot of DIY mounts on this site and on avsforum, I just didn't have the time with trying to get everything else in the room done. I'm sure you could find the one I bought by doing an ebay search for "Z-2 Projector Mount".

Mine has about a 2 or 3 inch gap between the ceiling and the plate that attaches to the pj. I would guess that from the ceiling to the bottom of the projector (actually the top because you mount it upside down) is about 6 or 7". Don't forget, you also need about 5" behind the pj for ventilation (and so that you can attach cables).

Another nice thing about the Z-2 is that it is light enough that you can mount it in the drywall-- no need to mount to ceiling joists. I used 4 auger-type drywall anchors, and it is very secure. Toggle bolts would work too if you wanted the extra peace of mind.

One other thing when you're wiring, don't forget to run component and S-video cables to the pj (and composite and DVI if you're inclined). When I ran mine, I forget the S-video and composite, so now I'm stuck-- can't watch LD (composite only) without some pain in the ass re-wiring.

#17 of 18 OFFLINE   Jay Mitchosky

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Posted September 09 2004 - 10:03 AM

Quote:
Jay, I'm curious-- why do you consider the lens shift useless?
Not in general, only those that limit adjustment between the screen borders. Although I see your point that it allows a bit of fine tuning if the projector is not mounted perfectly level with the top edge of the screen. In this case a fine adjustment is great if your mount is to low or table is too high. But these projectors allow shift all the way top to bottom. Why bother? Stephen hit this on the head.

Where I believe the real value lies with optical lens shift is when it facilitates placement above the screen. As indicated above keystone adjustment does in fact degrade an image. It has to has you digitally compressing either the top or bottom edge of the image, essentially leaving chunks of the imaging panel unused. The result manifests itself in moire patterns. The more you adjust the more of a problem it becomes, but if you're not noticing any untoward effects that's great.

Optical lens shift is a mechanical adjustment that keeps the actual image intact. With a design that allows offset above the screen you can mount flush with the ceiling (within limits, you can only move the image down a certain amount) without resorting to any keystone. Projector is then nicely out of the way without need for poles or such. Much, much nicer. I'd love to hear an explanation as to why it's not used more widely.

Quote:
One other thing when you're wiring, don't forget to run component and S-video cables to the pj (and composite and DVI if you're inclined). When I ran mine, I forget the S-video and composite, so now I'm stuck-- can't watch LD (composite only) without some pain in the ass re-wiring.
I ran a length of PVC from the projector location to the equipment room - through this I'll be able to easily feed whatever cables necessary once the projector is installed.

For power protection I chose a Leviton hospital-grade receptacle. Same for the sub locations up front. They're all 20A circuits.
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#18 of 18 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted September 09 2004 - 02:50 PM

Obviously can be dependant on projector throw, room size, screen size etc but in my case, the projector is slightly in front which is good because it is front porting (exhaust). BTW, the projector is also 4 ft above my head while standing (12' ceiling Posted Image)
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