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*** Official ALIEN VS. PREDATOR Discussion Thread


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#41 of 205 OFFLINE   Doug Miller

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Posted August 13 2004 - 05:28 PM

Not big on people criticizing movies they haven't seen.

Overall, it was alright. Wasn't the worst movie I'd ever seen, but didn't really fit with the tradition of either franchise.

Likes (spoilers HO, so beat it if you don't want 'em):

- Opening sequence was pretty funny. I liked the "finding the best at what they do" setup to go investigate the pyramid.
- The setting up of camp and following the tunnel down to the pyramid was all pretty cool. Quite honestly, even though everything was falling into place a little conveniently, I was still pretty interested in the first 40 minutes of the movie or so.
- The female lead character was good. It was nice to see a strong female lead that wasn't too "type cast". I get sick of the female lead that still needs a bunch of male help to survive, but she was strong. Was also happy to see that they didn't have our lovely minority actress act "street". Not getting into a racial debate, I just hate seeing people stereotyped into roles because of their race.

Dislikes:
- The Predators felt too wrestler for me. The Predators were HUGE. Besides seeming too big (the original Predator was huge, but sleek) they were dumb too. Seeing 2 Predators wasted in 5 minutes by one Alien made me laugh. As it was, the final Predator needed help to win his respect. I felt like the writers must have missed the first Predator movie. In the original, the creature was plotting -- spent time analyzing his prey's movements and nature. AVP was just a few Predators running around with uzi's. (Not literally, just figuratively.)
- Bishop being in the movie was fine, but set up more of a backstory, or something to let newbs know that he's the blueprint for the future.
- ZERO EXPLANATION about why the expedition group was so well armed. When the female lead (I don't remember names, I swear half the movie didn't have dialogue) was asking Bishop what he wasn't telling her, he says nothing and everybody whips out the heavy artillery. HUH?! Seemed like a big plothole. Why were they so prepared, what were they really looking for.
- It gets harder and harder to like modern action flicks. Everything feels like a music video, choppy and just too damn fancy.

This movie could have been alot better. Change 2 things, and this would be a DVD buy. #1, have it take place in the future on a new planet -- Predators are hunting the human landing party, but soon find a new prey. #2, get rid of the lame fun-house pyramid. It's OK to have a pyramid setup (I liked the sacrificial chamber and the frozen queen,) but lose the fun-house.

There you go, my opinion. (You know, an opinion from someone who saw the movie.)

Doug

#42 of 205 OFFLINE   Ray_Gootz

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Posted August 13 2004 - 07:55 PM

Doug-
I agree with you on the heavy artillry aspect. Personally I would've made Bishop a robot again and had the real Bishop rescue the female lead at film's end. They missed a real oppurtunity to add to the backstory of Alien. It's obious the corporation KNEW about the Aliens lnog before they sent Ripley's crew to get the facehugger in the first one. A vs. P could've been the backstory as to how Bishop's orginization becomes so huge.

#43 of 205 OFFLINE   Pete-D

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Posted August 13 2004 - 08:54 PM

*SPOILERS*


It wasn't as bad as I thought although I thought the "human/Predator" team-up really could only work on the big screen if it was Arnold teaming up with a Predator.

The pluses though, there were some really nice shots, particularily early on of Antartica.

The action scenes were hit and miss though. The scene where the Predator slices the Alien and it slowly falls apart was very well done, but the Preadtor-Alien WWE Wrestling was very poor. The camera is so close and its so dark, you really can't tell what's going on.

There seemed to be a lot of homages or indirect echoes of Jurassic Park though. When they dig up the bottle cap, I thought for sure they'd end up finding a mosquito encased in amber Posted Image.

Aside from the great shots of the Alien Queen, I think Alien fans will come away dissapointed. Predator fans might be more into it, although I did notice the "bulkier" Predator thing too. They definitely missed oppurtunities to tie this film in to the overall mythology of the Alien franchise.

#44 of 205 OFFLINE   Ben Osborne

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Posted August 14 2004 - 01:52 AM

Quote:
The Predators were HUGE. Besides seeming too big (the original Predator was huge, but sleek) they were dumb too. Seeing 2 Predators wasted in 5 minutes by one Alien made me laugh. As it was, the final Predator needed help to win his respect. I felt like the writers must have missed the first Predator movie.

I haven't seen the movie (and don't plan to) but I find that hilarious. In an interview Anderson said that the predators in his movie would make the predator in the first movie look like a big p****. From the sound of it, if the predators of AvP were in the first movie, Arnold's squad would have wasted them. Posted Image


#45 of 205 OFFLINE   Jason_V

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Posted August 14 2004 - 02:00 AM

Ugh. I wantd to cry last night. Stupid me believed Anderson when he said he was a huge fan and wanted to make this movie right. I actually believed him! I feel like an idiot.

I don't mind the monsters don't show up immediately. Alien was all about the character and being terrified by something you can't see. AVP could have taken that route: a much smaller team where we would be able to know the characters before they start being offed in groups. By the end of Alien, we knew Ripley's every emtion; AVP gives minor lip service to all the red shirts and, if possible, less to the females lead (can't remember her name).

This movie should have started in the past so we could see the aliens and predators "interacting" with ancient humans. We should have seen if the predators genetically created the aliens or if they were taken from another world. There could have been a real story here, something memorable and worthwhile.

If the next movie monster I go to see runs like a T-Rex from Jurassic Park, I will walk out. First it was Godzilla (a horrible imitation of a Rex) and now the alien queen. Geez, I didn't even know the thing could run, let alone had Rex DNA in her.

And don't even get me started about the team-up at the end (fine, it was in the comic, but this was handled piss-poorly) and the Close Encounters-esque ending. And I called the sequel before I even left for the theater last night. AVP 2 is never going to get made...if it does, though, how about having McTiernan and Cameron co-direct?

#46 of 205 OFFLINE   Kevin Grey

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Posted August 14 2004 - 03:10 AM

Count me in as one who thinks Predator 2 is incredibly underrated. I really love Hopkin's visual palet in it. Glover was no Schwarzenegger but I thought he did just fine and there were some pretty kickass action sequences, particularly the the meat-locker scene. Overall I'd rate it equal with the first Predator.

But man oh man is the score to this movie so forgettable. I'm thinking of the creepiness and adrenaline filled strings of Aliens or the machismo of the brass in Predator. The score to AVP had none of that.


Great point about the scores to the Alien movies (at least the first two) and the Predator movies being so distinct. I haven't seen Predator in four years but I can still hum the theme.

#47 of 205 OFFLINE   Tino

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Posted August 14 2004 - 04:25 AM

Looks like AvP grossed an estimated $16.7 million yesterday, on it's way to approx. a $40-45 million weekend.

So much for it flopping. Sure it wil have a massive drop next weekend, but it won't be the disaster that some were predicting and hoping for.
It's gonna be a hell of a ride. I'm ready. .

#48 of 205 OFFLINE   Johnny Angell

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Posted August 14 2004 - 05:39 AM

Another thing they missed out on here is the Predator camouflage. In Predator, you could see it, even when it was working perfectly and it was beautiful to look at. Here, you couldn't see it at all, least I couldn't.

Maybe that's better for the Predotor's, but the movie would have been more interesting if we had a chance to look for them when they were camoflaged.
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#49 of 205 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted August 14 2004 - 06:38 AM

Quote:
Looks like AvP grossed an estimated $16.7 million yesterday, on it's way to approx. a $40-45 million weekend.

So much for it flopping.


'Batman & Robin' grossed $43 million the first weekend. A movie doesn't have to be a flop to be a failure. AvP could really damage the franchises.

#50 of 205 OFFLINE   DavidPla

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Posted August 14 2004 - 06:48 AM

Quote:
'Batman & Robin' grossed $43 million the first weekend. A movie doesn't have to be a flop to be a failure. AvP could really damage the franchises.


But neither the "Alien" or the "Predator" franchise were HUGE moneymakers like the "Batman" franchise. The highest grossing film out of both series was "Aliens" with 85 million while the original "Batman" grossed 250 million. This film needs only to make 80 million to warrant a sequel. Fox is probably ecstatic with this opening.

#51 of 205 OFFLINE   Kevin Grey

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Posted August 14 2004 - 06:50 AM

'Batman & Robin' grossed $43 million the first weekend. A movie doesn't have to be a flop to be a failure. AvP could really damage the franchises.


What franchises? Both have been effectively dead for years. Yeah there was talk of an Alien 5 with Scott and Cameron involved and I'm sure Fox would have preferred that. However, given both directors' reticence to actually sign for an Alien 5 and its not surprising they went for the quick and easy film from Anderson. Its a shame that the movie has to be so poor but this will turn out to be a great move on Fox's part financially. After seeing the opening, it also brings up the possibility of new installments in the base franchises. While Scott and Cameron may not touch Alien 5 because of AvP's existence, Fox may farm new titles in both series out to other directors.

#52 of 205 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted August 14 2004 - 08:05 AM

My take is that the pyramid was a "trainig" ground for young hunters to "prove" themselves,to the elders.The fact that they entered without any "firearm",the ever changing structure,all adds to the difficulty level of the hunt.
What they didn't count on is the human interaction,namely to take the weapons,and starting the "cycle" too early.
I must say I had a fairly good time,as many here I had low expectation,but I liked it far better then Alien 3-4,which may not say much,but there you have it. Posted Image
I didn't expected but I liked the formation of a "friendship" between the "new Ripley" and the predator,and also liked the homage to the other movies,and the affore mentioned JP.
Yes I agree that this could have been much better in a hands of an accomplished filmmaker like Cameron,or Scott,but I still recommend to see it to make up one's mind,instead of relying on the "critics" here.

#53 of 205 OFFLINE   Norm

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Posted August 14 2004 - 08:51 AM

Quote:
Seeing 2 Predators wasted in 5 minutes by one Alien made me laugh. As it was, the final Predator needed help to win his respect. I felt like the writers must have missed the first Predator movie. In the original, the creature was plotting -- spent time analyzing his prey's movements and nature.


These Predators according to P.w.s.A. were young. The Humans in the Pyramid screwed up the initiation Hunt and the Predators were caught without their main weapon the Lasar gun. Which were used a lot in the original Predator.

BTW, I liked it. I just hope it will stand up to repeat viewings for me.

#54 of 205 OFFLINE   Norm

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Posted August 14 2004 - 09:02 AM

Lewis Besze, I see you & I are on the same page. I didn't read the all the posts or I wouldn't have posted mine.

Quote:
If the next movie monster I go to see runs like a T-Rex from Jurassic Park, I will walk out. First it was Godzilla (a horrible imitation of a Rex) and now the alien queen. Geez, I didn't even know the thing could run, let alone had Rex DNA in her.


I thought the Queen ran into Ripley in Aliens when she was in the Exo-Loader or whatever its called.

There seems to be a lot of nitpicking going on, without thinking things through before posting.

#55 of 205 OFFLINE   CoreyII

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Posted August 14 2004 - 11:52 AM

From my previous post, I forgot to mention Bill Duke as part of Arnold's team in the original Predator. Sorry.:b

#56 of 205 OFFLINE   Jim Peavy

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Posted August 14 2004 - 02:45 PM

Lewis Besze, I see you & I are on the same page.

Count me in, too. Esp. agree with Lewis when he said:
I must say I had a fairly good time, as many here I had low expectations, but I liked it far better then Alien 3-4... I didn't expect but I liked the formation of a "friendship" between the "new Ripley" and the predator, and also liked the homage to the other movies, and the affore mentioned JP.
Yes I agree that this could have been much better in (the) hands of an accomplished filmmaker like Cameron or Scott, but I still recommend seeing it...

Like I said in my post in the review thread, if you go in expecting the quality of Cameron or Scott, you're going to be disappointed. But for something of a B-movie by a less than A-list director, I had a good time with this.
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#57 of 205 OFFLINE   SteveCallas

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Posted August 14 2004 - 05:56 PM

I thought this movie was good. I just wanna respond to a few things.

"It would be a very odd choice for the Predators to have a pyramid set in Antarctica given that their two films make no mistake their preference for temperate or hot climates."

The one expert explains how Antarctica used to be attatched to a greater land mass, so that all 3 cultures could have built it, so it wasn't always freezing. To further this point, during the flashback, you see that it is a desert and looks warm, with ancient people sacrificing themselves.

"That they arrived without projectile weapons, but kept century old ones seemed really odd. I first thought it works as kind of a sporting safety device. Hunting only counts if you use hand to hand combat, but if you get in trouble, pick up the weapons. But then I remembered that the entire pyramid cycle was started by picking up the weapons, to include activating the sacrificial chamber, so it sort of fell apart. Perhaps the sequence was supposed to start with the Predators going into that chamber and dialing the date in."

Who is to say that these young predators even had these cannons before? Perhaps this journey, which was to prove that they were warriors, is also where they first earn their shoulder cannons.

"I understand that they do this safari every hundred years, but how did a whaling team get there to start it up?"

Well this last took place in 1904, so the whaling rig could have been set up any time between 1904 and 2004 and they would not have known anything about the pyramid beneath them or what it is used for.


"What was the deal with the pyramid?? It seemed like it was going to be a Human VS Pyramid movie for a while. Sure was convenient when it started to move."

The predator elders that set up this 'trial' did not want the younger ones to be able to retreat or for the aliens to escape a fight, so rooms would lock for ten minutes and then reopen - allowing a predator to kill a room full of aliens and then move on. Makes sense to me.

"Stupid story telling to explain how the pyramid(and all the others) got there, and how they were our overseers(sp?)."

More like great story telling. It doesn't intrefere with any of the other movies' stories, makes sense, and lends a big hand to theories of aliens building (or teaching us how to build) pyramids in real life. It is also VERY similar to Stargate.

"Why do they insist on advancing the weaponery visuals, the advanced shoulder gun fired way slower than in the other movies, and the "arm bomb" had this "trekkie transporter" look to it when he was activating it."

As I said earlier, this was probably one of the predators' first experience with the shoulder cannons and they may not have been as skilled with it yet. I don't know what you mean with the trekkie look, it looked identical to the way it did in Predator.

Overall, I think it was a pretty good movie and Anderson did a good job of making everything fit and make sense. That's not to say that another director wouldn't have done a better job though.

#58 of 205 OFFLINE   Norm

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Posted August 15 2004 - 01:51 AM

I sure prefer Stan Winston & Co. creature effects. Compared to these guys that seem to always low bid Winston's Co. These's guys were the same crew that created that horrible Alien Hybrid in Alien Resurrection. I just saw part of Behind the Scenes on E! Where they think they made the Predator face look different I.E. better. Which I disagree with!

#59 of 205 OFFLINE   Diallo B

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Posted August 15 2004 - 02:08 AM

i thought that this movie was pretty damn funny.

i howled when sanaa lathan, the female lead, was equipped with a spear and sheild by the predator. i laughed hard for a good 5 minutes. i could not stop. and then she had this funny stance/walk while she was holding it. i couldn't breathe.

i almost died when she and the predator were running together. and better yet when they were riding the sled up the tunnel. whoa man!!!! too funny!

anybody that actually knows the two franchises and needs a good laugh needs to eventually watch this one. maybe not a full price evening movie ticket. but at least a dollar show or dvd rental.

you will laugh you ass off.
listen with your own ears...
watch with your own eyes...
make your own decision.
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#60 of 205 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted August 15 2004 - 02:13 AM

I haven't seen the film, but I find it curious that no one seems to remember the name of the lead. She is mostly refered to as "the lead", "thefemale lead" or "the woman" in both threads. Strange.

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