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Wahoo! SVS addressing the $400 market...PB10-ISD coming


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#1 of 134 OFFLINE   John Tami

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Posted August 09 2004 - 05:33 AM

For those friends and family that secretly long for that big hunk of SVS Tube or Box sitting in your HT, but due to WAF, $$$, and possibly small box syndrome......SVS will soon market the SVS name into the $400 10" driver Sub Market....the PB10-ISD!!!! I've seen pics of the testing process (got to the Audio S&V forums..TomV pics) and its very impressive! Market shakeup time again!

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/news.htm

Also cool, they will direct sell the Rat Shack meter!

Good going Tom and Ron and Company!
JET

#2 of 134 OFFLINE   Matt_Smi

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Posted August 09 2004 - 05:50 AM

Cool, Should be a worthy rival for the STF-2… Wonder when it will be out?

#3 of 134 OFFLINE   Allen_N

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Posted August 09 2004 - 06:07 AM

Nice! That will be a good buy for people in that price range. I used to be in that price range but I've now convinced the wife to go up to the pb1-isd or maybe even the pb2-isd Posted Image If this had been out when I was first looking I probably would have gotten it.

#4 of 134 OFFLINE   SVS-Ron

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Posted August 09 2004 - 07:02 AM

Boy you guys don't miss much. I just posted that late last night.

I'll use this thread to answer any questions I can (since this is such a confidential environment ;^) that might not be ready for official SVS News page.

One thing I can add is that this train is moving, in fact several of us are on the platform waiting for some "passengers" to arrive already. We have been working on this sub for well over a year now, but it's only when you officially have parts inbound that we feel like it's fair to publicize a new product.

We're busting butt to tighten up the shipping dates and backward plan from that a pre-order date. First pics could be up as early as next week (production samples of parts are still quite few in number and the SVS R/D labs is guarding their stuff with dogs and loaded guns against the likes of the Marketing Department ;^)

I can say that pre-orders will be up before Halloween, or someone is gonna die (just kidding... sort of). It's all just a matter of how well pre-production parts do in final testing.

I can confirm what folks are already guessing (and asking in e-mail)... this will be a box sub, it will use a 10" woofer and said woofer WILL be from famed woofer gurus TC-Sounds. I can NOT confirm how it is we got a TC-Sounds woofer in a $400ish subwoofer. (But I'm told all the efforts are perfectly legal in most states 8^)

The amp will be all BASH baby, with only the features you folks are telling us you want, and nothing else. Still all built in the Toronto Canada, Indigo factory too. Again, there are some things we'd rather you NOT ask or our accountant will probably threaten to quit again.

Color choices, a cutting edge "right sized" cabinet, and a form factor that's new to SVS, though hardly new to the industry.

What IS new to the industry (this being the first new SVS in a while now, you expect this right?)?? Well that would be price-point shattering performance of course.

Certainly no one thinks we don't take every "player" that's already in the crowded $400 market very seriously. As seriously as we take the SVS credo to "be better, cost less". When the dust settles the PB10-ISD will prove once again, that if we can't take THAT statement to the bank ... we just don't build it.

Honestly, this was a hard thing to do. Any OEM in this price point has a tough job. It's only been because we've done well with larger subs that we could afford to pull this off. Since we're intimately familiar with the best of the breed at this entry level enthusiast subwoofer class you know we're not going to take any chances with the truth.

"Be better, cost less".

We wake up every day with that tattooed to our foreheads.

Ron

#5 of 134 OFFLINE   BryanZ

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Posted August 09 2004 - 07:19 AM

Here's a guess that it is a 10" sealed sub, something that will compete with the Rava market. Without a doubt I'm looking forward to the pictures. Posted Image

Quote:
Again, there are some things we'd rather you NOT ask or our accountant will probably threaten to quit again.

I'm pretty sure someone here is an accountant and will gladly trade work for a B4-Plus. Posted Image

#6 of 134 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted August 09 2004 - 07:23 AM

Can't wait to see specs, and reviews. Posted Image That's about the timeframe that I was thinking about looking for a new sub too Posted Image
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#7 of 134 OFFLINE   SVS-Ron

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Posted August 09 2004 - 07:41 AM

Bryan,

Good point about the accounting. I'll be sure to link this thread if he asks for a raise or something silly like that.

While the PB10-ISD will work fantastically for music (where depth and power are perhaps less important than excellent octave to octave frequency response and low distortion) it'll certainly give nothing up to achieve that balance. So it'll be at least as good on home theater as it is music, but it most certainly will not take a second seat to any sealed subs either. We looked hard at going that direction, really hard. If a sealed sub gave us better performance (remember, we're total nuts when it comes to making sure what you hear is backed up with measurements and not just "golden ears")... trust me we'd have gone there.

The PB10-ISD uses a simple and highly optimized vent without the complication or compromises of making it variable tune. Even the number of vents was up for debate in the early designs. One? Two? 3"? 4"?

As always one thing ruled each decision. While he says he was born in California ... we're all pretty sure Tom (head or R/D labs at SVS is from Missouri). Someone says "hey dual vents would look cool!" R/D is dragging out tens of thousands in test gear with "Show Me" written on the side.

Slaves to fashion we're not.

Box after box, woofer after woofer, alignment after alignment ended up on the cutting room floor and the perfect combination ended up being a single wide flare 3" port arrangement (with fairly rare front firing configuration flanking the woofer).

Sometimes the best solutions end up being the most simple. This is one you will be sorely tempted to leave the grill off I think.

Ron

#8 of 134 OFFLINE   Allen_N

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Posted August 09 2004 - 07:48 AM

Ron, by color choices do you mean the stone look that is on the PB1-ISD or more of a wood grain look? How would two of these compare to a single PB2-ISD? I'm something to rattle my chest, not as worried about how loud it is as I don't play mine near reference level.

#9 of 134 OFFLINE   John Tami

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Posted August 09 2004 - 07:55 AM

I'm glad to see your mentioning color choices....this has the ability to be a huge market item....the industructable finish is extremely functional, but I know many will think it's not the fashion they want in their living rooms....Something Glossy would work much better and screw the drink rings. That's what coasters are for! Posted Image
JET

#10 of 134 OFFLINE   SVS-Ron

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Posted August 09 2004 - 08:05 AM

John G,

Because it's so inexpensive you can bet we'll be sending a few out to folks that have done reviews on the forums before, and the pro-community as well. Parts availability will be limited for a while so the numbers that can go out in Beta-testing will be very small unfortunately.

IIRC you have a Hsu VTF-2? Certainly your comments, should you try a PB10-ISD, will be of great interest.

Allen,

The colors will be solid pallets in white, black, silver/gray and tan (we'll come up with some catchy names to be sure ;^) but not the "stone look" we offered for a limited time on the PB1-ISD (colors are expected to make a comeback soon on the PB1-ISDs soon though). There will be matching grills too using some pretty high-zoot cloth I personally selected. Add in little touches like compliant rubber feet for hard floor use (threaded and removable for those with carpet) and a front firing design that's utterly unaffected by what sort of floor you even have, and I think it'll be one of those very practical packages that's very easy to live with, even before you consider price.

Would two be better than one PB2-ISD? We'd need Tom V. to weigh in on that one, but almost certainly not. The big PB2 will have the advantage in woofer surface area, more vent space too. It'd be a little closer thing given dual PB10-ISDs might have an edge in enclosure space and effective power but I'm sure I'd still put my money down on the PB2 in most cases.

While it pushed budget, we did include continuously variable phase on this new SVS however. This will make mating dual subs in a room a piece of cake. The 0 deg - 180 deg flip switch that's more common at this price point really just doesn't cut it when you are trying to get dual subs in synch with each other (if they are separated).

Jet,

Sorry, these will be very light texture surfaces out of deference to our practical sides (and "better halfs"). High gloss offerings are very much in the works in other areas though so hopefully we'll have something nice and shiny for you to look at before too long. Impossible in the $400 price realm for now though.

Ron

#11 of 134 OFFLINE   John Tami

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Posted August 09 2004 - 08:23 AM

Ahh, don't worry about me buddy! Just a thought on the glossy, it can look purty! Posted Image I never underestimate WAF!!! ....I have probably sold (or soon too in the coming months) a good 3-4 SVS's here at work cause I'm the go to techno geek. And you know I love my cylinder! Only way up for me is an Ultra. But so far I have not been let down one bit by lowly PCi!
JET

#12 of 134 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted August 09 2004 - 08:25 AM

Quote:
IIRC you have a Hsu VTF-2? Certainly your comments, should you try a PB10-ISD, will be of great interest.

Yep, I have had the VTF-2 for about a year now, and it has done well by me, but an SVS is always tugging at the back of my mind since hearing the 25-31PCi Posted Image and I've been considering a bit more oomph now that the rest of the system is pretty well done. I believe I already have a buyer for the VTF-2, so as soon as these guys are available, there is a high probability that I will order one. I was already debating PB1 vs 25-31, because a cylinder would fit/work perfectly in my corner setup, but if I can save ~$100 comparatively with this guy, I wouldn't complain Posted Image

Did someone say PB-10 ULTRA? j/k Posted Image LOL
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#13 of 134 OFFLINE   John Tami

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Posted August 09 2004 - 10:25 AM

John Garcia..

If you like oomph..I highly recommend the 20-39PCi or PC+. The 20-39 tube is the sweet spot IMO. (the Ultra uses it!) All the SPL you could use in Music, with serious low's for Movies. Mine has no problem in 15Hz and lower with serious foundation moving going on. My room is 15'x20', Open Cornered with a Cathedral ceiling...my PCi is set to about 45% gain. Running a tad below reference (5 db maybe) in the PWC Test (Pant Waffeling Club - From 10+' away your sub must measure over 110db corrected in the LOTR Ring Sauron Finger Drop track...~22Hz) from 14' away it registered 117-118db corrected! Posted Image
JET

#14 of 134 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted August 09 2004 - 12:17 PM

Great job Ron, you guys could not ignore this market.

Are the cabinets also made by your current supplier as well? Will you have veneered finishes (at extra cost ofcourse)? A small box with the finish of the PB1+ I had would do well I think...ala the UFW-10.
curtis
Manhattan Beach, California

#15 of 134 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted August 09 2004 - 12:20 PM

I live in a third floor apartment, pant waffeling will not be a requirement Posted Image I've already experienced this phenomenon in a room larger than mine (~19x20 w/vaulted ceilings) with the 25-31PCi, and I felt that was more than would be reasonable in my place. I went with the VTF-2 because it was small, respectable response, and I got it used for a great price. 20-39 will definitley be too much. Posted Image
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#16 of 134 OFFLINE   Matt_Smi

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Posted August 09 2004 - 12:29 PM

What exactly do you guys consider Pant Waffeling to be? It is feeling your pants moving/vibrating from bass, or is it actually seeing them move?

#17 of 134 OFFLINE   SVS-Ron

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Posted August 09 2004 - 01:14 PM

Curtis,

No, not same cabinets as our PB1-ISD (which is itself different from our PB1-Plus supplier). No plans to do wood veneers on the low end of the SVS line. We have something else in store to go after the UFW-10 in the not too distant future ;^) The focus with the PB10-ISD development was on class leading performance in this price range... not the smallest size.

I've got an engineering prototype (in raw MDF glory!) I'm looking at right now. It's not large, but it's hardly a semi-micro design (with high-end woods and gloss) like the UFW-10. (I had the pleasure of seeing several UFW's in multiple finishes over the weekend. Mark Schifter did a great job with that package.) Of course the PB10-ISD will be much less expensive too.

You don't have to have much of an imagination to figure what subs will be in trouble with the PB10-ISD on the market, but the UFW-10 isn't one of them. Neither in terms of finish, size or performance (though I don't imagine the PB10-ISD will suffer much in terms of any performance comparision. It'll have a larger vented enclosure to its advantage after all).

The indicators regarding performance potential will really start to come home when Tom talks about the sort of woofer he's cooked up is capable of, not to mention the BASH amp that we've paired it up with. Final tuning is ongoing now I'm told (last step before production) and it's just killer. Let's just say the PCi and PB1-ISD subs proved great inspiration, and are responsible for a good bit of the technology packed in this new SVS.

Ron

#18 of 134 OFFLINE   Bill Blank

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Posted August 09 2004 - 01:48 PM

Congrats Ron and everyone else at SVS! I'm sure this is going to live up to the SVS name.

What I found to be damn cool is the availability of the RS meter! I know it was one of my top recommendations on the owner survey! It's good to see a lot of other people thought so as well and that SVS took it to heart and has done something about it!

Bill

#19 of 134 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted August 09 2004 - 01:51 PM

Thanks Ron....I am sure a lot of us will be looking forward to what the user reviewers have to post.
curtis
Manhattan Beach, California

#20 of 134 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted August 09 2004 - 02:26 PM

Quote:
We have something else in store to go after the UFW-10 in the not too distant future ;^)


Did you mention that at the AV123 get together? Posted Image
curtis
Manhattan Beach, California





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