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*** Official COLLATERAL Discussion Thread


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#1 of 130 Scott Weinberg

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Posted August 04 2004 - 02:56 PM

Just got back.

Pretty damn good movie. Posted Image

And this comes from someone who's hot & cold on Michael Mann. (My favorite of his is The Last of the Mohicans...by a long shot.)

The two leads are great, the score is fantastic, the digital approach suits the narrative well, and overall it's a consistently entertaining "grown-up action movie".

It ain't flawless, but I'll definitely be recommending this one.

#2 of 130 Scott Weinberg

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Posted August 05 2004 - 07:38 PM

Wow. Quiet thread. Posted Image

Anyway here's my review.

Hope you all enjoy it. (The review and the movie, too.)

#3 of 130 Dominik Droscher

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Posted August 05 2004 - 09:29 PM

Good review, I am psyched. Have to wait till September 23th till this opens in German cinemas, though. That is going to be a looooong wait.

#4 of 130 Robert Crawford

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Posted August 06 2004 - 12:02 AM

This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for "Collateral" please, post all comments, links to outside reviews, film and box office discussion items to this thread.

All HTF member film reviews of "Collateral" should be posted to the Official Review Thread.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.


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#5 of 130 JonZ

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Posted August 06 2004 - 12:42 AM

James Bs review....

http://movie-reviews....ollateral.html

Ive got a really busy weekend but Im determined to make time to see this.

#6 of 130 ZacharyTait

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Posted August 06 2004 - 09:57 AM

I got back from this movie about an hour ago and I'm still blown away. This is the best movie of the year so far. Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx were terrific. I'll be rooting for both to grab Oscar noms next year. Jada Pinkett-Smith, Mark Ruffalo, Bruce McGill, and Peter Berg were good as well. Barry Shabaka Henley's appearance was touching. I hated to see him go.

The music, cinematography, and editing were top notch. Some of the shots just made my jaw drop. I've never seen L.A. quite like this. This is a movie I can just sit there and watch either mute or with the isolated score on.

I loved the brief appearance by Jason Statham at the beginning1 Posted Image

Many critics and other people are complaining about the ending. I didn't have a problem with the ending at all. I can see where those people are coming from, but in my mind, I was so caught up in the movie that I just went with it and believed it every step of the way.

The gunshots were loud! Great sound design.

#7 of 130 Robert Crawford

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Posted August 06 2004 - 11:05 AM

Nobody and I mean nobody, films a large city like Michael Mann. I enjoyed this film very much and I did have a little problem with the ending and the same low battery cell phone trick we've seen in countless films, but I was able to overlook that minor grip.






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#8 of 130 Patrick Sun

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Posted August 06 2004 - 02:24 PM

Well, the end where Max is calling Annie, it had that "Rear Window" feel to it.

I thought it was weird in a few early scenes where it looked like the video was shot at 30 fps (one scene was when Vincent pops Max and slugs him against the taxi). It sort of pulled me out of the film for just through few instances of the faster fps clips.
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#9 of 130 Ryan FB

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Posted August 06 2004 - 02:59 PM

Honestly going by the trailers I'd seen I had low expectations for this, both on the front of developing actual characters and whether being shot digital would get on my nerves. The movie shot down both worries and excelled. Mann mixes digital and film pretty effectively, and the mostly digital process adds a gritty realism and a unique style. Another thing that surprised me was the realistic portrayal of firearms, it really "sold" Cruise's character to me as someone who knew what he was doing. The pacing and character development was also very well done, with Mann taking it slow and presenting the scenery beautifully, but able to switch gears seamlessly and create tension for the action scenes.

#10 of 130 Michael Reuben

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Posted August 07 2004 - 01:58 AM

It was interesting to read the following comments from Peter Apruzzese in the review thread:
Quote:
The one drawback (for me) was that he chose to shoot it on HD video. Unfortunately, that flat & crushed look really hurts some of the film - faces have no tone and texture (at times Jamie Foxx looks like a marionette from the "Thunderbirds" tv show or a cgi character).

I saw Collateral with digital projection and encountered no such problems. I wonder whether this will be like Attack of the Clones, where a number of people (including Roger Ebert) reported a qualitative difference between seeing it digitally and seeing it on film. If so, this may be the single biggest drawback of digital acquisition at this stage of the game, where digital projection facilities are still pretty rare. Which is a shame, because, like many of Mann's films, this one is filled with visual flourishes that are a treat in themselves and that will probably never look as good on a small screen.

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#11 of 130 Peter Apruzzese

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Posted August 07 2004 - 02:51 AM

Michael,

I was about to quote myself to bring that part of the film into the discussion! Posted Image

Which Manhattan theatre is using DLP for it? It might be worth it for me to venture in and check it out to compare the two. I loved the photography, but on a 48-foot wide screen, a lot of it didn't hold up at all. I noticed very few artifacts during the film - some ringing, some odd flares, a couple of jaggies - but nothing serious except for the very flat look of many of the cab interiors. Some of the helicopter shots looked gorgeous - as did the scene in the jazz club, so whatever faults I was picking out are specific to something he was doing photographically. Frankly, I was so caught up in the film that I didn't care about it until it was over.
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#12 of 130 Thi Them

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Posted August 07 2004 - 03:03 AM

Quote:
I'm not sure why he chose to film it on video, the lighting and everything else is still very carefully controlled, so he couldn't have saved a lot of time. Money is certainly not the issue. Perhaps he wanted a "gritty" look, but he'd have been much better off shooting on film and making the "look" in the post-production phase, IMO


By shooting with an HD digital camera, it allows a greater distance to be seen at night. That's why some of the shots, like the overhead ones, looked so good.

Quote:
The one drawback (for me) was that he chose to shoot it on HD video. Unfortunately, that flat & crushed look really hurts some of the film - faces have no tone and texture (at times Jamie Foxx looks like a marionette from the "Thunderbirds" tv show or a cgi character


I agree with how Jaime Foxx sometimes looks in the movie.

~T

#13 of 130 Peter Apruzzese

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Posted August 07 2004 - 03:06 AM

Quote:
By shooting with an HD digital camera, it allows a greater distance to be seen at night. That's why some of the shots, like the overhead ones, looked so good.
I seem to remember HEAT having many overheard and long-distance shots that were as sharp as a tack.
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#14 of 130 Thi Them

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Posted August 07 2004 - 03:10 AM

I missed Heat in the theaters so I can't compare. For the most part, I was impressed with how good the movie looks. There were only two problems I noticed: the Jaime Fox CGI look and one shot of Tom Cruise's face that looked awfully gritty.

~T

#15 of 130 Patrick Sun

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Posted August 07 2004 - 03:47 AM

In a short interview with Mann in EW, here's one Q&A:

Quote:
Q: One of the climactic scenes is in a crowded Korean nightclub, the other in a high-windowed unit office. The latter features distinctive-looking, shimmery nighttime visuals. You shot a lot of your 2002 TV series Robbery Homicide Division on high-definition video -- did you use that there?

A: Yeah. One of the first images I had in my head was guys stalking each other as near-silhouettes against the city at night. That could not have been shot on film; the aesthetic does not exist in the photochemical realm -- it only exists in high-def video. As the [filmed] scenes in the club, I had a floor plan the size of a large dinining room table and plotted out every single actor's move and camera position. The choreography of that action, with customers freaking out as Tom shoots the guys after him -- there were 600 Korean extras kept in a state of hysteria 12 hours a day. We were all wiped (laughs), but they were terrific.

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#16 of 130 Michael Reuben

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Posted August 07 2004 - 08:22 AM

Quote:
Which Manhattan theatre is using DLP for it?

I saw it at Loews Kips Bay. According to the paper, digital projection is also available at Loews 34th, Lincoln Square and the AMC complex in Times Square. The AMC would have been my other choice, because I know their DLP setup is excellent.

Quote:
It might be worth it for me to venture in and check it out to compare the two.

If you do, I'd be very interested in hearing the results.

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#17 of 130 Peter Apruzzese

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Posted August 07 2004 - 09:10 AM

Thanks for the list, Michael. I'll try to get in and see it at the AMC - the best of the DLP's I've seen so far.
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#18 of 130 Nick C.

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Posted August 07 2004 - 04:53 PM

Had a great and thrilling time with the film, Cruise was sharp and totally believable playing the baddie

...albeit during some of Max's transformations from meek cabby to proactive hero, I felt the narrative was quite forced. Although the last transformation worked well (breaking loose from the policeman's handcuffing upon finding out Vincent's final target would be Annie), it just felt very odd when Max ran loose with Vincent's briefcase, flipped the switch to bad-ass mode at Felix's club, and ended the car ride after Vincent insulted his inability to enjoy life and his lack of career determination... Then after each transformative episode ended, Max would just return to his beckoning cave once again.

Also, just a nitpick, but the ending felt a little too conventional (genre-confined, I suppose), with the good guy prevailing in that subway shootout despite Vincent being a professional killer and ready (not as if he were blindsided)
later Pooh...

#19 of 130 JohnS

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Posted August 08 2004 - 12:11 PM

I thought this right away, but when one of the cops mentioned a cab killer a few years back.
and that it seemed odd that a cabbie would flip out and kill people, so he must have had a passanger with him.

did anyone else think maybe Cruise's character(Vincent) was in LA years back doing the same thing he is now?

Vincent was doing this killing thing for 5-6 years.
And has visited LA previously.

I think that killing the cops mentioned was Vincent years back!

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#20 of 130 Richard_D_Ramirez

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Posted August 08 2004 - 12:32 PM

Quote:
I thought this right away, but when one of the cops mentioned a cab killer a few years back.
and that it seemed odd that a cabbie would flip out and kill people, so he must have had a passanger with him.

did anyone else think maybe Cruise's character(Vincent) was in LA years back doing the same thing he is now?

From what I remember the previous incident happened in the Bay Area. But Vincent did mention he has been in L.A. before, so I wouldn't be surprised if Vincent has used the "cabbie" technique in L.A. previously.

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