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HDTVs that render both 720p and 1080i


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12 replies to this topic

#1 of 13 OFFLINE   Aaron_H

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Posted July 28 2004 - 10:46 AM

Hi, 1) I'm in the market for a new HDTV and was wondering if anyone knew of any HDTVs that actually *render* BOTH 720p and 1080i. For example, if I am watching a 720p source, the TV actually renders it in 720p and doesn't upconvert or downconvert; or if I'm watching a 1080i source it actually renders in 1080i and doesn't downconvert to something else. 2) Also, do you really think it would be necessary to have that ability or should I just go with an HDTV that upconverts to 1080i? 3) Do they make or do you think they will make 1080p TVs some day? I would guess this would eliminate the whole worrying about conversions thing. 4) Do you guys suggest I get a RPTV CRT 1080i or a RPTV LCD 720p? I'm thinking about a Sony or Hitachi RPTV...what is your opinon? Thanks for your help!

#2 of 13 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted July 28 2004 - 12:55 PM

1) To the best of my knowledge only a few professional direct view CRTs will do this. 2) No, it's not necessary considering those few professional direct view CRTs don't have the "sharpness" of a fixed pixel imager. So, it's really rather moot. 3) A 1920x1080 LCD, LCOS, Plasma, or SXRD is already a progressive device. They don't display an interlaced signal. It just happens there is no ATSC format for 1920x1080p60. Even if there were it wouldn't solve the problem of having multiple resolutions. 4) Depends on your room and viewing characteristics.

#3 of 13 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted July 29 2004 - 09:35 AM

I don't follow RPTVs much, but I would be surprised if there weren't CRT based sets out there that had the electronics to handle 720p. There are 9-inch RPTVs, so why there wouldn't be any to do 720p would be strange. There certainly are 720p panel digital RPTVs, though as a CRT guy... 2) 1080p can be beneficial on the highest end CRTs, as well as on the high-end digitals. You're not going to have much to take full advantage of that on just a regular RPTV though...

#4 of 13 OFFLINE   BrionL

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Posted July 29 2004 - 11:54 AM

I have the Sony KF-42WE610 and it renders images in 480i,480p,720p, and 1080i. Personally I think it is better to get a TV that can handle all four since you're going to want to watch films in progressive and videos in interlaced. Brion

#5 of 13 OFFLINE   Chad Ferguson

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Posted July 29 2004 - 02:17 PM

Brion or anyone: SO the reason to have the option of 720p is for Xbox and HD satellite? Or am I wrong?

#6 of 13 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted July 29 2004 - 02:50 PM

You only need a TV that will display a 720p signal. It doesn't need to do it in each formats native rate.

#7 of 13 OFFLINE   PeterTHX

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Posted July 29 2004 - 03:52 PM

The Sony WE610 can ACCEPT a 1080i signal, but it downconverts 1080i to its native resolution, in this case 788p. Chad: The XBOX outputs 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i depending on the game in question. You choose which modes your TV can support. "Dragon's Lair 3D" is 1080i, while "Soul Calibur 2" is 720p. I have a Sony KV-34XBR910 that will upconvert 720p to 1080i (but doesn't display it natively with no conversion), so I can enable ALL modes in the XBOX video dashboard. CBS, NBC, WB, UPN, and most cable staions (except ESPN) support 1080i. FOX and ABC (& ESPN) support 720p. From what I have seen available, nothing displays BOTH signals NATIVELY without some kind of upconversion or downconversion. In the case of CRT (always 1080i in HD mode) it's especially puzzling, since it can do so for a 480p signal.

#8 of 13 OFFLINE   Chad Ferguson

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Posted July 29 2004 - 05:29 PM

I;m alright if the TV doesn't support it natively but converts. Guess one of my questions is about HDTV. Does the HD signal come only in what the station decides? So like you said, Fox supports 720p, can I not watch it in HD it my TV will not support/convery a 720p signal? Or does the HD receiver display it in another format? Basically I'm just trying to see how important 720p support on RPTV's is. Thanks

#9 of 13 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted July 30 2004 - 01:58 AM

Most HD receivers will convert 720p to 1080i or vice versa. The Motorola I've got for Comcast HDTV allows you to output native, 1080i or 720p. Since my Toshiba converts 720p, I tried all three outputs and noticed no difference, except when the box converts to 720p. A 1080i source converted to 720p at the box and back to 1080i in the TV was a little more prone to pixelization.

#10 of 13 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted July 31 2004 - 12:12 AM

I was comparing these this year(In Tulsa where I live), and found that the price and issues associated with LCD's and DLP's moved me towards CRT RPTV's. I Paid $1900 with tax and shipping for a 55" Mits. I wasn't going to get that kind of a deal on any of the others and Mits I found to be the most superior of the CRT sets. I wasn't going to get this kind of size for under $3,500 in a DLP or LCD. The Bulb failure issues on the LCD's bothered me alot. The Grey blacks also bothered me alot. If you need/want recommendations in Tulsa, shoot me an email. FWIW, I have an Xbox and don't feel it's worth it to get 720p. Most of the stuff I'd want is 1080I anyway.

#11 of 13 OFFLINE   Leo Kerr

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Posted July 31 2004 - 12:35 AM

I remember reading an answer to some of these questions from a display engineer at Phillips NV.

If you're building a CRT-type display, it was much easier to get a display with reasonable brightness in the 1080x30i mode than it was at the 720x60p mode.

The reason for this involved the beam current to get the proper 'exposure' of electrons to the phosphore plate to make the image light, and how much power it took to 'steer' the beam.

According to my memory, he was saying to get a 'good' 720x60p CRT-type display, you'd probably have to do all your steering windings with 12ga or 14ga wire to handle the steering current. Normally, those steering electromagnets are wound with, what, 24ga?


Now, start ignoring some numbers. 1080i is not a good thing. Interlace is inherintly evil.

As for realistic recommendations, I'd say (if at all possible) get yourself a digital front-projector of some kind.

Leo Kerr
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#12 of 13 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted August 02 2004 - 03:57 PM

I vehemently disagree. I can do 720p 60hz no problem. The flexibility that you have with CRT to run pretty much any resolution or refresh you want has it's benefits. You can leave everything exactly as it is, 1080i, 720p, 1080p, 480i, 480p, or whatever particular resolution you want, say some random number like 380x672 @ 47.3hz, you could do that too without *having* to convert things to any native resolution, though there are benefits to hitting the resolving sweetspot of a particular CRT. This is assuming quality displays that aren't heavily skimping on the capabilities of pushing these resolutions electronically, etc. Many consumer displays are inadequate in this regards, and won't do 720p for instance.

#13 of 13 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted August 03 2004 - 04:31 AM

I routinely watch 720p at 72 Hz on my CRT front projector. I have seen CRT rear projectors that are said to be able to do 720, but they are uncommon.




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