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Can't believe I still don't know this -- DD 2.0 question


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15 replies to this topic

#1 of 16 OFFLINE   Anthony Clifton

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Posted July 19 2004 - 07:10 AM

I tried searching this a variety of different ways but I either came up with too many hits or not enough... so I'll ask:

If an audio source is DD 2.0 (my Pioneer player says Dolby 2/0 when looking at the audio tracks) I would want to engage Dolby surround on my Denon receiver, correct? Even though it's a stereo source, the receiver will decode the signal properly and present it across the speakers.

Basically, the only time I'd want to use stereo with a DVD is when my player indicates a stereo PCM source .. is that right?

And are there any exceptions to the rules?

The reason I ask is because I was playing a live concert DVD this weekend and there was quite a bit of information coming from the center channel speaker. I just assume it was mixed that way.

Kinda embarrassed that I still haven't figured this out...

#2 of 16 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted July 19 2004 - 07:30 AM

Set the Denon to auto detect the digital stream and it will select the proper format for you. What ever you choose from the DVD menu (DTS, DD 1.0-5.1, PCM) will be played properly.

#3 of 16 OFFLINE   Anthony Clifton

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Posted July 19 2004 - 09:57 AM

My receiver is old school. I don't believe it has any auto-detect functionality.

#4 of 16 OFFLINE   JamesCB

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Posted July 20 2004 - 12:26 AM

If your receiver is new enough to have DD/dts decoding, it is likely to have an "auto format decoding" setting. That's my guess.

Good luck,
James

#5 of 16 OFFLINE   Anthony Clifton

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Posted July 20 2004 - 12:33 AM

DD, no DTS. It's a Denon 2700 or something like that. No auto-detect.

#6 of 16 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted July 20 2004 - 03:33 AM

Well, it is your choice as to what you listen in...

On DD 2.0 concert dvd's, I usually end up using all channel stereo as my choice.

#7 of 16 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted July 20 2004 - 04:08 AM

You can expand any stereo souce, be it PCM, analog, or DD 2.0, in any way you want, or leave it in stereo. I would experiment with the different modes: DSP stuff, Pro-logic, all-channel stereo, etc (whatever options you have available, including leaving it in stereo) and do what you prefer most. This may vary from disc to disc and what it is (music, movie, whatever.)

#8 of 16 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted July 20 2004 - 04:12 AM

Quote:
If an audio source is DD 2.0 (my Pioneer player says Dolby 2/0 when looking at the audio tracks) I would want to engage Dolby surround on my Denon receiver, correct?

As with so many things, it depends.

If it's a stereo signal encoded for Dolby Surround, then the answer is yes.

If it's a stereo signal not encoded for Dolby Surround, then you should experiment and see what appeals to your ear. (I assume from your description of the receiver that it doesn't have ProLogic II, which is designed for all stereo sources, regardless of whether they're encoded for surround.)

If it's a mono signal -- i.e., both of the 2.0 tracks have identical information -- then engaging surround processing will send everything to the center channel. Some people don't prefer this, but I'm not one of them.

Quote:
Basically, the only time I'd want to use stereo with a DVD is when my player indicates a stereo PCM source .. is that right?
Whether it's PCM 2.0 or DD 2.0 makes no difference.

M.
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#9 of 16 OFFLINE   Anthony Clifton

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Posted July 20 2004 - 06:50 AM

Quote:
f it's a stereo signal encoded for Dolby Surround, then the answer is yes. If it's a stereo signal not encoded for Dolby Surround ...

Is there an easy way to tell? or any way to tell?

Quote:
... then you should experiment and see what appeals to your ear.

I was looking for a more definitive, non-subjective answer. Posted Image Posted Image

Quote:
I assume from your description of the receiver that it doesn't have ProLogic II

Correct.

Quote:
If it's a mono signal -- i.e., both of the 2.0 tracks have identical information -- then engaging surround processing will send everything to the center channel. Some people don't prefer this, but I'm not one of them.

I do prefer this (mono from the center channel) actually.

I guess I'm hung up on the 'correctness' of it. I always assumed that DD 2.0, whether it meant Dolby Stereo (no surround info) or Dolby Surround, was meant to be run in the Dolby Surround mode on my receiver.

#10 of 16 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted July 20 2004 - 07:23 AM

Quote:
Is there an easy way to tell? or any way to tell?

There's really no easy way to tell. Descriptions on boxes or inserts aren't always reliable. Some surround processors will report on whether the 2.0 sound has been matrix encoded, but it's not a common feature.

One of the many advantages of DPL II is that it eliminates the uncertainty, because it was designed for any 2.0 source, regardless of surround encoding.

Quote:
I was looking for a more definitive, non-subjective answer. Posted Image Posted Image

My own experience is that many plain stereo tracks decode to surround quite nicely. But a lot depends on the capabilities of your receiver (or processor).

M.
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#11 of 16 OFFLINE   Anthony Clifton

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Posted July 20 2004 - 07:41 AM

Thanks very much for the help, Michael. I'll just play it 'by ear' Posted Image until I get a receiver with DPL II.

#12 of 16 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted July 23 2004 - 10:39 AM

OK, I thought I had a handle on this, but I guess not quite...

My understanding is that my amp only looks at the incoming DD stream if AC-3 is selected (because that is the only time it appears to care whether I am using optical or coax). Anything else, it looks at the RCA analog inputs. When I put a disc with a DD 2.0 track in and play it back via Pro-Logic (not II), I am looking at the PCM track. For example, the X-Files episode discs are DD 2.0. If I have the amp set to AC-3, the sound is 2.0 stereo (no surround), but Pro-Logic yields the desired sound field. What am I misunderstanding?

Peace... Derek
Peace... Derek

One sub to rumble them all. One sub to shake them. One sub to humble them all. And in the darkness break them.

Louvre attendant: Sacre bleu! ze frame on ze Mona Lisa broke and ze only one left iz too small. Andre, bring me ze scissors!

#13 of 16 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted July 23 2004 - 11:23 AM

Quote:
What am I misunderstanding?

I'm not sure, because I'm having trouble understanding your question. For example:

Quote:
When I put a disc with a DD 2.0 track in and play it back via Pro-Logic (not II), I am looking at the PCM track.

There is no "PCM track" on the X-Files discs, or indeed on most DVDs. It sounds like you're asking about the difference between what gets delivered through the analog connections vs. the digital. The answer, in the case of a DD 2.0 track, is the same thing. The analog connections deliver an analog signal that's been generated by the DVD player's DACs; the digital connection (optical or coax) delivers a DD signal which is then converted to analog by the receiver's DACs. Either way, the receiver can apply Prologic processing (at least, most receivers can).

M.
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#14 of 16 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted July 23 2004 - 12:25 PM

Michael,

That just goes to show how ignorant I am when it comes to some of this stuff. I am still stuck in LaserDisc mode, I guess. Thank you for clearing that up about the behavior of the DACs. I am still somewhat confused as to why I can get Pro-Logic decoding on the 2.0 signal when I have "Dolby Pro-Logic" selected on the amp, but only 2.0 stereo whan I have "AC-3". Maybe the DD circuitry in my Marantz does not automatically discern between 2.0 stereo and surround (although I thought Dolby Labs designed DD to auto-detect DPL stuff). Well, as soon as I upgrade my amp to DTS and auto-detect, this will be a non-issue. Thanks!

Peace... Derek
Peace... Derek

One sub to rumble them all. One sub to shake them. One sub to humble them all. And in the darkness break them.

Louvre attendant: Sacre bleu! ze frame on ze Mona Lisa broke and ze only one left iz too small. Andre, bring me ze scissors!

#15 of 16 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted July 23 2004 - 03:50 PM

Quote:
I am still somewhat confused as to why I can get Pro-Logic decoding on the 2.0 signal when I have "Dolby Pro-Logic" selected on the amp, but only 2.0 stereo whan I have "AC-3".

It's not at all unusual for receivers or processors to have some modes that are limited to either analog or digital signals. Your Marantz probably just has separate circuitry for Prologic and DD processing.

M.
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#16 of 16 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted July 23 2004 - 04:30 PM

Michael,

Thank you!

Derek
Peace... Derek

One sub to rumble them all. One sub to shake them. One sub to humble them all. And in the darkness break them.

Louvre attendant: Sacre bleu! ze frame on ze Mona Lisa broke and ze only one left iz too small. Andre, bring me ze scissors!


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