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540p or 1080i--what about DVI?


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#1 of 15 OFFLINE   DaleI

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Posted June 18 2004 - 10:35 AM

I just got the Hitachi 57s500 to go with a Panny xp30 dvd player and as far as watching dvds are concerned, there are three possible combinations here: 480i->1080i 480p->540p 480p->1080i I was just curious what a dvi dvd player would do? Would the TV set also upconvert that signal, also with the possibility of producing artifacts?

#2 of 15 OFFLINE   Allan Jayne

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Posted June 18 2004 - 03:08 PM

As far as
.

#3 of 15 OFFLINE   dpippel

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Posted June 19 2004 - 12:50 AM

Your Hitachi will upconvert ANY incoming video signal that isn't 540p/1080i. It doesn't matter if it's component or DVI. You can bypass this (and let your DVD player do the upconversion) by feeding the display 1080i via either component or DVI.

Careful man, there's a beverage here!


#4 of 15 OFFLINE   Barry Hebert

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Posted June 19 2004 - 02:58 AM

I have an Hitachi 57S500 and a Panasonic F87 DVD changer. I get a noticeably better picture with the F87 set to output 480i, and allowing the 57S500 to deinterlace and upconvert the signal. I can't convince myself that I see a real differnce with the Hitachi set to 540p or 1080i. When I set the Panasonic F87 to output 480p, I notice conversion artifacts in the image that are not there when the Hitachi receives a 480i signal. --Barry

#5 of 15 OFFLINE   DaleI

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Posted June 19 2004 - 04:33 AM

Interesting, because when I tried 480i--1080i it produced the weakest picture of the three options. On another note, what color temp are you using for dvds with the s500 set? Normal or Warm?

#6 of 15 OFFLINE   Barry Hebert

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Posted June 19 2004 - 08:19 AM

I use the 'STANDARD' color setting. You reference 'three possible combinations' of DVD to TV connections. But a 480i or 480p signal is upconverted by the TV and you have the option to display it at 540p or 1080i. So thats four options... 480i to 540p 480i to 1080i 480p to 540p 480p to 1080i As I indicated, I can't really notice a difference between 540p and 1080i on any given input source. But I do notice a difference feeding the set an interlaced vs. progressive signal from various devices. The 57S500 does better with a 480i signal from my Panasonic F87 DVD player. However, the TV does better with a 480p input from XBOX games. Additionally, a 720p signal is upconverted by the TV and displayed as 1080i. A 1080i signal is displayed natively by the TV as such.

#7 of 15 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted June 19 2004 - 05:50 PM

Barry, I tried a Panasonic S-35 (single disc version of the F87) with my Sony set and found I also got better pq with the player on interlaced rather than progressive. My set can do native 480p, no 540p conversion. It upconverts 480i to either 480p (with or without 3/2 pulldown) or 960i. This was not my experience with an older Panny CP-72, it worked best at 480p output. This was clearly a case where the set's de-interlacing and pulldown were better than the S-35 but not quite as good as the CP-72. The CP-72 has Faroudja, the S-35 does not. I tried the S-35 because it can pillarbox 4/3 and can "fix" non-anamorphic widescreen movies, while the CP-72 won't. I think you just have a better de-interlacer in your tv than in the F87. I moved the S-35 to my 16 year old XBR in the bedroom. The XP-30 also has the Faroudja de-interlacer and should perform much better than the s-35/F-87. Some are happier with an upconverting player that will output 1080i, a native scanrate for any crt based set, but some compromises are involved for 4/3 discs as most sets lock into Full with a 1080i input. If you watch a lot of 4/3 material it can be a pain to have to switch the player to 480p mode for veiwing them. I have one of the Zenith upconverters and love it for anamorphic and non-anamorphic widescreen (it can do a vertical only variable stretch for the latter) but still prefer my older JVC with pillarboxing for 4/3 stuff.
Steve S.
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#8 of 15 OFFLINE   DaleI

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Posted June 20 2004 - 02:34 AM

I forgot to type out the 480i to 540p option, yes. I'll try distinguishing between 480p-540p or 480p-1080i, because the 480i options were clearly inferior with my setup. Thanks for the helpful replies.

#9 of 15 OFFLINE   Allan Jayne

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Posted June 18 2004 - 03:08 PM

As far as I know the conversions for both DVI and analog video are:

480i -> 480p -> 540p
480p -> 540p

The choice of 1080i or 540p on your TV just affects the way the video is painted on the picture tube, otherwise the video signal coming from the TV's de-interlacer and scaler section is the same, 540p.

For 540p the scan lines occupy 540 unique vertical positions, for 1080i the scan lines of alternating frames occupy 1080 unique vertical positions.

480i directly to 1080i is the same as 240p to 540p, is inferior, and I hope nobody does it.

(Perhaps some TV sets do something different and proprietary)

Video hints:
Video Technicalia Made Easy
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#10 of 15 OFFLINE   dpippel

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Posted June 19 2004 - 12:50 AM

Your Hitachi will upconvert ANY incoming video signal that isn't 540p/1080i. It doesn't matter if it's component or DVI. You can bypass this (and let your DVD player do the upconversion) by feeding the display 1080i via either component or DVI.

Careful man, there's a beverage here!


#11 of 15 OFFLINE   Barry Hebert

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Posted June 19 2004 - 02:58 AM

I have an Hitachi 57S500 and a Panasonic F87 DVD changer. I get a noticeably better picture with the F87 set to output 480i, and allowing the 57S500 to deinterlace and upconvert the signal. I can't convince myself that I see a real differnce with the Hitachi set to 540p or 1080i. When I set the Panasonic F87 to output 480p, I notice conversion artifacts in the image that are not there when the Hitachi receives a 480i signal. --Barry

#12 of 15 OFFLINE   DaleI

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Posted June 19 2004 - 04:33 AM

Interesting, because when I tried 480i--1080i it produced the weakest picture of the three options. On another note, what color temp are you using for dvds with the s500 set? Normal or Warm?

#13 of 15 OFFLINE   Barry Hebert

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Posted June 19 2004 - 08:19 AM

I use the 'STANDARD' color setting. You reference 'three possible combinations' of DVD to TV connections. But a 480i or 480p signal is upconverted by the TV and you have the option to display it at 540p or 1080i. So thats four options... 480i to 540p 480i to 1080i 480p to 540p 480p to 1080i As I indicated, I can't really notice a difference between 540p and 1080i on any given input source. But I do notice a difference feeding the set an interlaced vs. progressive signal from various devices. The 57S500 does better with a 480i signal from my Panasonic F87 DVD player. However, the TV does better with a 480p input from XBOX games. Additionally, a 720p signal is upconverted by the TV and displayed as 1080i. A 1080i signal is displayed natively by the TV as such.

#14 of 15 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted June 19 2004 - 05:50 PM

Barry, I tried a Panasonic S-35 (single disc version of the F87) with my Sony set and found I also got better pq with the player on interlaced rather than progressive. My set can do native 480p, no 540p conversion. It upconverts 480i to either 480p (with or without 3/2 pulldown) or 960i. This was not my experience with an older Panny CP-72, it worked best at 480p output. This was clearly a case where the set's de-interlacing and pulldown were better than the S-35 but not quite as good as the CP-72. The CP-72 has Faroudja, the S-35 does not. I tried the S-35 because it can pillarbox 4/3 and can "fix" non-anamorphic widescreen movies, while the CP-72 won't. I think you just have a better de-interlacer in your tv than in the F87. I moved the S-35 to my 16 year old XBR in the bedroom. The XP-30 also has the Faroudja de-interlacer and should perform much better than the s-35/F-87. Some are happier with an upconverting player that will output 1080i, a native scanrate for any crt based set, but some compromises are involved for 4/3 discs as most sets lock into Full with a 1080i input. If you watch a lot of 4/3 material it can be a pain to have to switch the player to 480p mode for veiwing them. I have one of the Zenith upconverters and love it for anamorphic and non-anamorphic widescreen (it can do a vertical only variable stretch for the latter) but still prefer my older JVC with pillarboxing for 4/3 stuff.
Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

#15 of 15 OFFLINE   DaleI

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Posted June 20 2004 - 02:34 AM

I forgot to type out the 480i to 540p option, yes. I'll try distinguishing between 480p-540p or 480p-1080i, because the 480i options were clearly inferior with my setup. Thanks for the helpful replies.




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