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Help with new gear....


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#1 of 22 OFFLINE   SeanV

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Posted June 18 2004 - 09:47 AM

I've finally finished my HT and now am moving to my car. I have a 98 Honda Accord EX Coupe that I'm trying to upgrade, listening mostly to hip hop & R&B. I've already had a Pioneer DEH7600MP installed and now I'm looking for the rest. I want to replace all of the factory speakers (6 1/2 fronts, 6X9 rears) and add two 12s and necessary amps, etc... Now with a TOTAL budget of $1,000 - $1,200 what can I look to get. Oh yeah, I am not mechanically inclined at all so I will have to have it installed also.

A few questions are:

1)What are some brands/models I should look at for the speakers/subs/amps?

2)How many amps do I need?

3)Will I need a crossover?

I'm not trying to be the loudest car in the world, I just want a nice amount of "OOMPH" in my system. With some nice bass (my SVS has me spoiled i guess). Thanks in advance for your input.
"A good friend will bail you out of jail.....A true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn..we *$%#@ up"

#2 of 22 ONLINE   Clinton McClure

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Posted June 18 2004 - 06:33 PM

Sean - To answer your questions:

1. - Take a look at Alpine, Kenwood, JL Audio, Kicker, and Rockford Fosgate. They all make superb equipment. The models to look at mainly depend on what you want each part of your system to sound like. For example, do you want really good highs and really good bass or mediocre highs and extra-loud bass, etc...? I used to use a lot of Fosgate, but now I prefer to use Alpine equipment. To me it sounds better. I wanted all Alpine for my current system, but I ended up mixing equipment because of price and mounting depth. (I wanted Alpine Type-R 6" drivers in my doors, but they were too deep to fit so I chose a Fosgate FNQ series driver instead.) Your best bet would be to go to your local car audio store and check out what they have. Listen to a lot of different stuff and decide what sounds best to your ears. Here's a link to systems I've had in two of my cars. The Pontiac doesn't have any system pics, but if you click on the Celica pic, it'll take you to a page with pics of the system components and custom install work.

2. - I would recommend two amps: a good 4-channel amp for your front and rear speakers and a mono-block for your subs. If you go with two subs, you'll want to bridge them together. For example: If you have two 8 ohm subs that are rated at 200W RMS each, you would want to bridge them together (making the sub amp see a 4 ohm load) and make sure the sub amp is rated at 400x1 watts RMS @4 ohm or better. If your subs are 4 ohm subs, the amp should be 2 ohm stable. Any techinal questions can be answered at your local car audio store.

3. - If your front speakers are a component set (separate drivers and tweeters) it will come with a crossover. If the front speakers are coaxial (your 6x9s in the rear will be coaxial or triaxial), make sure the amp you get for them has a built in hi-pass/lo-pass crossover. The install tech at your local car audio store will know how to set the crossovers.

My only real advice is to stay away from Best Buy and Circuit City for install work. I've seen and heard a lot of it and it's bad news. Most of the techs there are poorly trained and take a lot of shortcuts. Good luck and let us know what you find.

#3 of 22 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted June 18 2004 - 08:10 PM

Speakers- Focal or CDT

Amps - Soundstream would be pushing the budget side but I see sales on some since the new models are coming out. Phoenix Gold is a quality brand, and the new JBL GTO series have some serious hardware. For your budget I'd get 1 4-channel amp for the speakers, and a class D amp for the subs.

Subs- 2 12" Elemental Designs O series would be heavy but give you enough oomph when amply powered. Sometimes I think I shoulda gone with that instead of a single 12A.

You get what you pay for here but ED seems to be the only exception I've found. My 12A only cost $300 and it pounds at 1kw without breaking a sweat.

#4 of 22 OFFLINE   brentl

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Posted June 20 2004 - 06:36 AM

You also need to worry about soundstaging. Are you worried? You MAY be able to get away with HU power for the rear speakers although people may not suggest it. Rears are fill only in proper cars. I like the ED idea mentioned above, considered good value esp in the base line. You can always go Dual Shiva, Tempest,or Db12 from Adire audio. You have built in crossovers in the HU that includes a non fading sub out which is cool. Stock rear speakers may work fine, but worry about dpeth when it comes to the fronts Brent

#5 of 22 OFFLINE   VinhT

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Posted June 20 2004 - 01:35 PM

Sean, be sure to set aside about $300 for installation and wiring costs.
Vinh Tran

#6 of 22 OFFLINE   SeanV

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Posted June 20 2004 - 11:56 PM

So I don't need the rear 6X9's? I would think that would leave something out. Don't the rear speakers handle the 'mids'? It seems like there would be something missing if all my (non bass)sound came from the bottom of the door(where my fronts are at). On the other hand, I could probably get better front speakers. Also, I looked at the ED O series and whats the diff between these(other than price): 13Ov.2 Dual 2 $165.00* / MSRP $275.00 - 400 - 900WRms - 0.6/1.1cF Sealed - 1.2/1.5cF Vented - 13Ov.2 Dual 4 $165.00* / MSRP $275.00 - 400 - 900WRms - 0.6/1.1cF Sealed - 1.2/1.5cF Vented - 16Ov.2 Dual 2 $195.00* / MSRP $300.00 - 400 - 950WRms - 1.5/1.8cF Sealed - 2.0/2.5cF Vented - 16Ov.2 Dual 4 $195.00* / MSRP $300.00 - 400 - 950WRms - 1.5/1.8cF Sealed - 2.0/2.5cF Vented -
"A good friend will bail you out of jail.....A true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn..we *$%#@ up"

#7 of 22 OFFLINE   brentl

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Posted June 21 2004 - 02:20 AM

"13Ov.2 Dual 2 $165.00* / MSRP $275.00 - 400 - 900WRms - 0.6/1.1cF Sealed - 1.2/1.5cF Vented - 13Ov.2 Dual 4 $165.00* / MSRP $275.00 - 400 - 900WRms - 0.6/1.1cF Sealed - 1.2/1.5cF Vented - 16Ov.2 Dual 2 $195.00* / MSRP $300.00 - 400 - 950WRms - 1.5/1.8cF Sealed - 2.0/2.5cF Vented - 16Ov.2 Dual 4 $195.00* / MSRP $300.00 - 400 - 950WRms - 1.5/1.8cF Sealed - 2.0/2.5cF Vented -" 130s are 12" and 160s are 15" drivers Also they are dual 2 ohm driver OR dual 4 ohm driver. So you can run 1-2-4 ohm with the dual 2s, or 2-4-8 ohm with the dual 4s. Tha Accord is big enough that you'll need a little fill from the rears, but it's up to you. Do you want to fill the car with sound ?? or do you want it to sound proper?? Remember lots of people set the rear to be a little louder than the fronts. Let me ask you this. When was the last time you went to a concert and turned your back to the stage? 6 by 9 speakers aren't your best bet if you want to improve the rears, get a good quality Co-ax speaker(6 1/2") or a set of component speakers similiar to your fronts. "Don't the rear speakers handle the 'mids'?" Nope, the front speakers should do everything but the low bass. You can use a mid driver for the rears if you want just for the fill. Brent

#8 of 22 OFFLINE   SeanV

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Posted June 21 2004 - 02:45 AM

Well, I'm pretty sure that I would have to do some 'extra' work to fit the 6 1/2 in the 6X9 space, which I don't really want to do. Now, what's the difference/advantage between the dual 2 and dual 4? What kind of amp (spec wise) would I need for each? (Sorry if these are basic questions)
"A good friend will bail you out of jail.....A true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn..we *$%#@ up"

#9 of 22 ONLINE   Clinton McClure

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Posted June 18 2004 - 06:33 PM

Sean - To answer your questions:

1. - Take a look at Alpine, Kenwood, JL Audio, Kicker, and Rockford Fosgate. They all make superb equipment. The models to look at mainly depend on what you want each part of your system to sound like. For example, do you want really good highs and really good bass or mediocre highs and extra-loud bass, etc...? I used to use a lot of Fosgate, but now I prefer to use Alpine equipment. To me it sounds better. I wanted all Alpine for my current system, but I ended up mixing equipment because of price and mounting depth. (I wanted Alpine Type-R 6" drivers in my doors, but they were too deep to fit so I chose a Fosgate FNQ series driver instead.) Your best bet would be to go to your local car audio store and check out what they have. Listen to a lot of different stuff and decide what sounds best to your ears. Here's a link to systems I've had in two of my cars. The Pontiac doesn't have any system pics, but if you click on the Celica pic, it'll take you to a page with pics of the system components and custom install work.

2. - I would recommend two amps: a good 4-channel amp for your front and rear speakers and a mono-block for your subs. If you go with two subs, you'll want to bridge them together. For example: If you have two 8 ohm subs that are rated at 200W RMS each, you would want to bridge them together (making the sub amp see a 4 ohm load) and make sure the sub amp is rated at 400x1 watts RMS @4 ohm or better. If your subs are 4 ohm subs, the amp should be 2 ohm stable. Any techinal questions can be answered at your local car audio store.

3. - If your front speakers are a component set (separate drivers and tweeters) it will come with a crossover. If the front speakers are coaxial (your 6x9s in the rear will be coaxial or triaxial), make sure the amp you get for them has a built in hi-pass/lo-pass crossover. The install tech at your local car audio store will know how to set the crossovers.

My only real advice is to stay away from Best Buy and Circuit City for install work. I've seen and heard a lot of it and it's bad news. Most of the techs there are poorly trained and take a lot of shortcuts. Good luck and let us know what you find.

#10 of 22 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted June 18 2004 - 08:10 PM

Speakers- Focal or CDT

Amps - Soundstream would be pushing the budget side but I see sales on some since the new models are coming out. Phoenix Gold is a quality brand, and the new JBL GTO series have some serious hardware. For your budget I'd get 1 4-channel amp for the speakers, and a class D amp for the subs.

Subs- 2 12" Elemental Designs O series would be heavy but give you enough oomph when amply powered. Sometimes I think I shoulda gone with that instead of a single 12A.

You get what you pay for here but ED seems to be the only exception I've found. My 12A only cost $300 and it pounds at 1kw without breaking a sweat.

#11 of 22 OFFLINE   brentl

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Posted June 20 2004 - 06:36 AM

You also need to worry about soundstaging. Are you worried? You MAY be able to get away with HU power for the rear speakers although people may not suggest it. Rears are fill only in proper cars. I like the ED idea mentioned above, considered good value esp in the base line. You can always go Dual Shiva, Tempest,or Db12 from Adire audio. You have built in crossovers in the HU that includes a non fading sub out which is cool. Stock rear speakers may work fine, but worry about dpeth when it comes to the fronts Brent

#12 of 22 OFFLINE   VinhT

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Posted June 20 2004 - 01:35 PM

Sean, be sure to set aside about $300 for installation and wiring costs.
Vinh Tran

#13 of 22 OFFLINE   SeanV

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Posted June 20 2004 - 11:56 PM

So I don't need the rear 6X9's? I would think that would leave something out. Don't the rear speakers handle the 'mids'? It seems like there would be something missing if all my (non bass)sound came from the bottom of the door(where my fronts are at). On the other hand, I could probably get better front speakers. Also, I looked at the ED O series and whats the diff between these(other than price): 13Ov.2 Dual 2 $165.00* / MSRP $275.00 - 400 - 900WRms - 0.6/1.1cF Sealed - 1.2/1.5cF Vented - 13Ov.2 Dual 4 $165.00* / MSRP $275.00 - 400 - 900WRms - 0.6/1.1cF Sealed - 1.2/1.5cF Vented - 16Ov.2 Dual 2 $195.00* / MSRP $300.00 - 400 - 950WRms - 1.5/1.8cF Sealed - 2.0/2.5cF Vented - 16Ov.2 Dual 4 $195.00* / MSRP $300.00 - 400 - 950WRms - 1.5/1.8cF Sealed - 2.0/2.5cF Vented -
"A good friend will bail you out of jail.....A true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn..we *$%#@ up"

#14 of 22 OFFLINE   brentl

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Posted June 21 2004 - 02:20 AM

"13Ov.2 Dual 2 $165.00* / MSRP $275.00 - 400 - 900WRms - 0.6/1.1cF Sealed - 1.2/1.5cF Vented - 13Ov.2 Dual 4 $165.00* / MSRP $275.00 - 400 - 900WRms - 0.6/1.1cF Sealed - 1.2/1.5cF Vented - 16Ov.2 Dual 2 $195.00* / MSRP $300.00 - 400 - 950WRms - 1.5/1.8cF Sealed - 2.0/2.5cF Vented - 16Ov.2 Dual 4 $195.00* / MSRP $300.00 - 400 - 950WRms - 1.5/1.8cF Sealed - 2.0/2.5cF Vented -" 130s are 12" and 160s are 15" drivers Also they are dual 2 ohm driver OR dual 4 ohm driver. So you can run 1-2-4 ohm with the dual 2s, or 2-4-8 ohm with the dual 4s. Tha Accord is big enough that you'll need a little fill from the rears, but it's up to you. Do you want to fill the car with sound ?? or do you want it to sound proper?? Remember lots of people set the rear to be a little louder than the fronts. Let me ask you this. When was the last time you went to a concert and turned your back to the stage? 6 by 9 speakers aren't your best bet if you want to improve the rears, get a good quality Co-ax speaker(6 1/2") or a set of component speakers similiar to your fronts. "Don't the rear speakers handle the 'mids'?" Nope, the front speakers should do everything but the low bass. You can use a mid driver for the rears if you want just for the fill. Brent

#15 of 22 OFFLINE   SeanV

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Posted June 21 2004 - 02:45 AM

Well, I'm pretty sure that I would have to do some 'extra' work to fit the 6 1/2 in the 6X9 space, which I don't really want to do. Now, what's the difference/advantage between the dual 2 and dual 4? What kind of amp (spec wise) would I need for each? (Sorry if these are basic questions)
"A good friend will bail you out of jail.....A true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn..we *$%#@ up"

#16 of 22 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted June 21 2004 - 06:25 PM

Get dual 2-ohm, they fit the most common applications.

Wiring Diagram

It's pretty easy to get 6.5's in a 6x9 hole, just need a little piece of angle iron to fill in the space. Either way Focal makes a 6x9 coaxial, costs around $130 street price.

I used to think the rear speakers were supposed to handle the lower frequencies before I got into car audio also. This is just due to how stock systems are designed, older cars had little room up front so they crammed small speakers in the doors/dash. If you have the room (and you do according to Crutchfield) get some nice 6.5's up front that can do just as well as the rears.

Focal: Official Site | Store
CDT: Official Site | Store

#17 of 22 OFFLINE   David.G

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Posted June 21 2004 - 08:44 PM

Get CL-6 component set for the front. Buy the optional tweet level remote for 30$ for them also(adds a lot of control). Rears get the CDT coaxials that are on sale. . Power them off the HU. Then go to ED and buy one 2ch amp and one of their combo deals for the Ov.2 and an amp to go with it. Lets go to prices ED combo #1A-415$ (13Ov.2.44 plus a 400x1A4ohm/800x1@2ohm) ED Nine.2 amp-145$(100x2@4ohm) Cl-61-300$ CDT Tweet control unit-30$ CDT 5.25" coaxials-99.99 The Subs are run off the amp that comes with them, the Nine.2 runs the fronts, the rears are done off the HU. No active crossover is needed just make sure the Pioneer its tuned right. Its a simply setup right at 1k$. Installing is easy in an Accord. order something small from crutchfield like the speaker scacers to make the 6x9 in the rear fit the 5.25" and they'll send you an instruction booklet showing how to install most of the stuff yourself. Only part you'll need help on is the amp. Also i'd suggest buying a cap and an upped battery since Hondas are notorious for having a small electrical system.
David is the car audio guy, Jason is the home audio so if you see a post in car audio thats David, if in Home thats more than likely Jason. Confusing isn't it!!! Also i hope i am allowed to put my sounddomain down on my equipment page. Its car audio but you guys might enjoy it.

http://members.sou...

#18 of 22 OFFLINE   SeanV

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Posted June 22 2004 - 03:18 AM

Great stuff all...Thanks!!!!!!!!!!! David.G So, I only need 1 sub? I thought it was 2 in a box....live and learn. And I'm going to have a shop do the install, I won't have the time or patience to do it myself. Anyway, thanks all for all the info.
"A good friend will bail you out of jail.....A true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn..we *$%#@ up"

#19 of 22 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted June 21 2004 - 06:25 PM

Get dual 2-ohm, they fit the most common applications.

Wiring Diagram

It's pretty easy to get 6.5's in a 6x9 hole, just need a little piece of angle iron to fill in the space. Either way Focal makes a 6x9 coaxial, costs around $130 street price.

I used to think the rear speakers were supposed to handle the lower frequencies before I got into car audio also. This is just due to how stock systems are designed, older cars had little room up front so they crammed small speakers in the doors/dash. If you have the room (and you do according to Crutchfield) get some nice 6.5's up front that can do just as well as the rears.

Focal: Official Site | Store
CDT: Official Site | Store

#20 of 22 OFFLINE   David.G

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Posted June 21 2004 - 08:44 PM

Get CL-6 component set for the front. Buy the optional tweet level remote for 30$ for them also(adds a lot of control). Rears get the CDT coaxials that are on sale. . Power them off the HU. Then go to ED and buy one 2ch amp and one of their combo deals for the Ov.2 and an amp to go with it. Lets go to prices ED combo #1A-415$ (13Ov.2.44 plus a 400x1A4ohm/800x1@2ohm) ED Nine.2 amp-145$(100x2@4ohm) Cl-61-300$ CDT Tweet control unit-30$ CDT 5.25" coaxials-99.99 The Subs are run off the amp that comes with them, the Nine.2 runs the fronts, the rears are done off the HU. No active crossover is needed just make sure the Pioneer its tuned right. Its a simply setup right at 1k$. Installing is easy in an Accord. order something small from crutchfield like the speaker scacers to make the 6x9 in the rear fit the 5.25" and they'll send you an instruction booklet showing how to install most of the stuff yourself. Only part you'll need help on is the amp. Also i'd suggest buying a cap and an upped battery since Hondas are notorious for having a small electrical system.
David is the car audio guy, Jason is the home audio so if you see a post in car audio thats David, if in Home thats more than likely Jason. Confusing isn't it!!! Also i hope i am allowed to put my sounddomain down on my equipment page. Its car audio but you guys might enjoy it.

http://members.sou...




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