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#1 of 65 ChadLB

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Posted June 11 2004 - 02:51 AM

Why must people make such remarks...
http://www.audiorevi...88_2741crx.aspx

#2 of 65 Andrew Pezzo

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Posted June 11 2004 - 02:58 AM

Its hard to imagine but there are people out there who werent happy with thier SVS purchase. You cant please all the people all the time.

However, I have noticed on audioreview that sometimes a post like that is nothing more than someone just having "fun" and has no expeience with the product whatsoever. Its unfortunate becasue a lot of poeple use that site for help.

#3 of 65 Mike_J_D

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Posted June 11 2004 - 03:00 AM

Because they don't know how to be polite, or to criticize with class.
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#4 of 65 Alan Wise

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Posted June 11 2004 - 03:03 AM

I would be willing to bet that this was planted by one of their jealous competitors.
Looking at the other 20 reviews, I would say that there is no warrant to that one review.
Then again, I generally do not take much credence in these type of reviews. I would rather research the archives of this forum instead.

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#5 of 65 Tom Vodhanel

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Posted June 11 2004 - 03:10 AM

Hmmm, do a quick search on all reviews by "caligari" and what do you find...

http://www.audiorevi....database=audio

"Mirage BPS-S210 bipolar, servo feedback, force forward design. 100 pound monster that will do 100DB at 16HZ. Nothing, including the SVS I've tried. have ever even come close to this sub. Superb for music and movies and I doubt it could be built under $3000 these days."

Gee...that sounds familiar...

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#6 of 65 Mike_J_D

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Posted June 11 2004 - 03:18 AM

LOL what a chump.....nice find Tom
HT - Denon 3808ci | Elite Pro-111FD | PS3 60gb | Panamax 5300PM | NHT ST4 | NHT SB2 | NHT SC1 | SVS 20-39 | NHT SA3

#7 of 65 Mark KU

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Posted June 11 2004 - 03:19 AM

That wouldn't be your good buddy Nicholas R, would it?

#8 of 65 Dan Halchak

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Posted June 11 2004 - 03:31 AM

I have no problem with a person stating how they really feel, or their thoughts, I mean that's what all these forums are for...but you have to know how to express yourself tactfully when you have something negative to say about anything.

To me, that's like a lot of the times what happens on car forums, everyone loves their cars and hates to hear about another car that's faster or better or whatever...

It's the macho man trying to protect his small manhood theory... Posted Image

You should NEVER have to put another product down just to make the product you like look better to everyone else. Just state the facts, don't belittle whatever you are comparing and it's all good.

I have an SVS, do I like it, yep definitely, is it the best and end all be all of subs, nope...but I don't try to defend it against people without any reason. SVS are great subs for their prices...as are a LOT of other companies (HSU, Adire, Earthquake, M&K, etc, etc...). Not everyone likes the exact same thing, nor does everyone think the same way.

I think it's becoming a little to easy to become a "fanboy" of a certain product...and it happens all the time with just about anything in life.

People just need to relax and take into consideration how others might take things said (well written in this case).

ha ha Posted Image

#9 of 65 Rogelio D

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Posted June 11 2004 - 03:53 AM

It's one thing to give an objective review of something, be it positive or negative, but posting such nonsense by someone having a online 'vendetta' with SVS is pretty sad.

#10 of 65 Craig Chase

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Posted June 11 2004 - 04:11 AM

A simple request to Audioreview.com will likely result in that "review" being removed.

Someone posted one similar on the VTF-3 a couple of months ago, and it was also taken off.
Craig Chase

#11 of 65 JohnSmith

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Posted June 11 2004 - 04:25 AM

I wonder if Nic R is also Markotran/Bob?

#12 of 65 Tim Hoover

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Posted June 11 2004 - 04:31 AM

I just want to know why his review of the AR sub includes the phrase "stunning imaging"...maybe I'm a complete imbecile, but I thought that would be a serious drawback in low-bass reproduction.
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#13 of 65 Craig Chase

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Posted June 11 2004 - 04:44 AM

Having posted a few times on Audio Review, it is ironic that most "hatchet job" reviews are from people who bought the product "used" ... thus no proof of ownership.

And, if this site was as much into "rabid pack" behavior, there would be 300 posts giving the Mirage 210 one star reviews. We ARE above that though...
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#14 of 65 Cees Alons

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Posted June 11 2004 - 04:51 AM

Tom,

Good catch! Posted Image

Yes indeed it seems a lot like postings of our former member Nicholas R (and of AVS member NightRain).

Coïncidence, no doubt.


Cees

#15 of 65 Shane Martin

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Posted June 11 2004 - 04:53 AM

There are 2 good parts to this:

1. Name someone who buys a product because of Audio review? Raise your hand.

2. Usually when it gets 5 star reviews then you get 1 or 2 people doing that, it raises a red flag immediately and people usually discount that.

Regardless the internet is so full of anonymoty(sp) that folks are going to post that type of nonsense. I can understand if someone didn't like the sub and returned it and gave it a 2 or a 3 but to give it a 1 + call them a garage run company is a bit over the top and a low blow.

Also can we please stop the "is it Nicholas R, BobA type crap. It basically will get the thread locked and then our talk here is then a waste of time. It doesn't really do any good.
Quote:
Yes indeed it seems a lot like postings of our former member Nicholas R (and of AVS member NightRain).
Former poster? That didn't take long.

#16 of 65 Wayne Ernst

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Posted June 11 2004 - 05:35 AM

When I encounter a product that I don't like, I usually don't post a review of the item because I don't want it to harm the sale. Selling the item and getting it out of my home is usually more comforting than living with the item and bitching about it each and every day.

Quote:
Yes indeed it seems a lot like postings of our former member Nicholas R

I guess I didn't realize he was banned. In any regards, the move to ban people who hold the forum back from being a great area to exchange information
"My reality check ... just bounced"

#17 of 65 Tim O...

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Posted June 11 2004 - 06:07 AM

Whether or not the person who posted the review on Audioreview is Nicholas R or not, I've been reading several threads involving him over the past few days and been getting progressively more angry and disgusted with him.

It's true that SVS owners and fans are enthusiastic. There's no questioning that. But they don't deserve to be labelled with "pack mentality" or other such derogatory and insulting terms. Sometimes they may be a bit over the top, but for the most part I find them to be intelligent, open, honest, competent appreciators of quality components. And several of them not only own other equipment, they test it and praise it too (i.e. Craig Chase, Edward J M).

What makes me angry and also sad about this is that these forums truly are useful and entertaining. It is virtually solely because of them that I bought a PB2-ISD - because of the honest and enthusiastic impressions posted by other testers/owners. I am more than impressed with my purchase so far, and am grateful to people like Craig and Edward J M for their time, efforts and advice. They and others like them enabled me to get the most bang for my buck and realize HT performance I didn't think I could afford for a long time. But when people like Nicholas come on with an obvious agenda and have nothing useful to say, combined with a lack of transparency (and apparent honesty) about their own experience with equipment, it just poisons the atmosphere and may sour some people on a particular brand or even on these forums themselves. That this is possible is both the strength and the weakness of the Internet. It's too bad. Unfortunately not all people are interested in simply sharing their honest opinions and excitement about their hobby.

#18 of 65 JohnSmith

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Posted June 11 2004 - 06:13 AM

Quote:
Also can we please stop the "is it Nicholas R, BobA type crap. It basically will get the thread locked and then our talk here is then a waste of time. It doesn't really do any good. quote:


Seems like a fair question to me. Perhaps if these multiple accounts/aliases is just one person any new account on any audio related forum can be tracked down (as long as he's using the same IP address) Is just one guy going around spreading all these flame wars/trolling? If it is, it's someone with something loose in his head.

#19 of 65 Brian Harnish

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Posted June 11 2004 - 06:31 AM

John Smith wrote:

Quote:
Is just one guy going around spreading all these flame wars/trolling? If it is, it's someone with something loose in his head.

Or someone with way too much time on their hands.

#20 of 65 SVS-Ron

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Posted June 11 2004 - 07:17 AM

A simple request to Audioreview.com will likely result in that "review" being removed.

Craig, I wish it was that easy. Audio Review (which is far more influential a site than I think anyone here realizes) takes their impartiality seriously. You basically have to PROVE it's a bogus post. Of course people know this so inevitably it's a "used" sub that's in question. One that neither the seller or the buyer ever seem to have much information about.

I don't know if Nicholas R owns an SVS, (Nick, sorry if I missed it, we haven't gotten any serial numbers or warranty transfers from ANY customers you purchased used ones from... including the presumably like new PC-Ultra... nor any notes from those you sold your subs to afterwards. All of which is pretty odd really). However, it IS pretty clear the inexplicably unhappy poster at AR is either Nicholas R./NightRain ... or "C" simply likes to quote him verbatim.

Anyone who's frequented the web for some time knows this pops up now and again. Once it actually happened in reverse... where we had a poster singing our praises (here and at AR) that we proved did NOT have an SVS. After a LONG process succeeded in having that and one bogus negative removed (which I'd call a wash ;^). When/if Nicholas sheds some light on any of the serial numbers... or sellers, or buyers of his many SVS's, we'll know he's got some legit complaints. Perhaps even there is something faulty with of his subs so a return of them for warranty refurbishment would be advised.

Till then, rest assured there are indeed folks, that for some reason, feel the vicarious slandering of a small American company is just the thing to do in your spare time. I don't understand it, but if you think this doesn't happen, you are living in a dream world.

There are ways to investigate posters of false accusations, AR does it, even HTF can do it. And libel in the business world (especially if found indeed to based on pure fraud) is not that hard to prosecute. A pain in the ass, but it can and is done. In our second year SVS had to retain a lawyer since web businesses are easy targets for this sort of silliness; so we lost our naivete in this regard long ago. We have NO problem with real people that are genuinely unhappy with their SVS (yes, it's happened a couple times!) but make believe "problems" or preferences for that matter are just plain sick. Hell we LIKE it when legitimate, reality-based criticism arises. It helps us make our subs better. "I hate SVS" doesn't exactly rise to the level of constructive criticism.

I actually hope Nicholas R. IS a seriously unhappy customer, but the ways the latest slander is popping up would seem to indicate otherwise.

Should false postings prove to be the case it could be HTF will take the step to remove his posts, same with AR. If we had even a single serial number and the name of an owner that had sold to him I've missed it so far.

Despite that spiffy ad banner here and at AR, or our periodic participation with charity promotions and the like at AVS, HTSpot etc our contributions to any of them is a drop in the proverbial bucket of their budgets; and our influence little more than any one of you. Frankly, the honesty and credibility of posters on such forums is important to SVS wherever we are discussed. There is no need or desire to "stack the deck" when you believe you make the better mousetrap; quite the contrary actually.

People see through the false postings after a fashion.

Anyway, I hope Nick takes us up on the offer to look over his sub(s), fix it (them?), prove to all the world that indeed he's legit, or at least make sure we know who the current owners are (since all are probably still covered by their 3 year warranty). So far he hasn't, and the guises of similar negative postings are clearly being seen as lacking any credibility... tripping right into the fraud realm.

We're so dang busy making/supporting SVS's we often are slow to spend any serious time tracking this sort of problem down. Which is, after all, why we all hope Nick... or any complaintant... is real and not just fictional.

Reality we have a grasp on usually.

Ron


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