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Has a theatrical movie ever had Edge enhancement?


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#1 of 25 OFFLINE   Andrew s wells

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Posted May 24 2004 - 03:24 PM

I hope this is the right discussion zone for this. I really wasn't sure. I have heard about edge enhancement many times, but have done very little research into it, as I have heard once you know, its very distracting. I was, however curious, for those of you who can spot it, has it ever been spotted while a movie is being shown in the theaters, or is this only relegated to home video releases? Just curious. Posted Image

#2 of 25 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted May 24 2004 - 03:41 PM

It's strictly a video phenomenon. M.
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#3 of 25 OFFLINE   Randy A Salas

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Posted May 24 2004 - 03:54 PM

Isn't it a digital phenomenon? I could have sworn it pops up occasionally on theatrical presentations of films shot with digital-video cameras, such as 28 Days Later and The Lost Skeleton of Cadavera.
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#4 of 25 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted May 24 2004 - 04:21 PM

Which would be video. -- H

#5 of 25 OFFLINE   Damin J Toell

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Posted May 24 2004 - 05:23 PM

And video can be a theatrical format (either in acquisition, projection, or both). Perhaps Michael meant to expand his point to make it clear that theatrical exhibitions can, depending on the format(s), exhibit edge enhancement. DJ

#6 of 25 OFFLINE   greg_t

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Posted May 24 2004 - 11:22 PM

Home video can be digital (dvd, D-VHS) or analog (laserdisc, VHS). LD can also have edge enchancment, so I would say Michael gave the most accurate answer.

#7 of 25 OFFLINE   Scott Kimball

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Posted May 25 2004 - 12:19 AM

If, at any time from shooting to display on your screen or the theater screen, the elements pass through a digital stage, then it is likely that some amount of sharpening (edge enhancement) was done to the image. To the proper degree, edge enhancement can have a positive effect on the image and can be a beneficial form of filtering for sources crossing the analog-digital divide, or sources re-sampled to a different sized format. The problem is when the sharpening filter is applied too heavily. Usually, the degree of sharpening which can be beneficial will change from scene to scene - so if those responsible for filtering just "set it and forget it," we get the unfortunate edge enhancement artifacts (halos, ringing, blooming). Also, display devices, when designed poorly or set up improperly, will do some sharpening. The sharpness control and Velocity Scan Modulation controls on your display both do edge enhancement on-the-fly. Some displays don't even let you turn these controls all the way off. -Scott

#8 of 25 OFFLINE   Matt Pelham

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Posted May 25 2004 - 12:33 AM

28 Days Later is the only one I can think of. I remember being stunned sitting in the theater and seeing all the massive edge enhancement.

#9 of 25 OFFLINE   Randy A Salas

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Posted May 25 2004 - 12:46 AM

My point was that, yes, you can see edge enhancement in theaters, which is what the original question concerned. Michael's terse response--"it's strictly a video phenomenon"--implied that you couldn't see EE in theaters.
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#10 of 25 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted May 25 2004 - 01:44 AM

You know, I actually considered a longer answer replete with comments about digital video, digital intermediates, composited digital effects, etc. etc. But after many years at HTF, I've come to believe that sometimes there's a virtue in short answers -- accurate but not dressed up with every subtlety and qualification. If people want further information, they'll ask for it.
Or, alternatively, it implied that the edge enhancement that is most frequently a subject of discussion here is something that gets applied when a film source is transferred to video for home consumption. M.
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#11 of 25 OFFLINE   Bjoern Roy

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Posted May 25 2004 - 02:11 AM

Film based movies

Many recent films have a bit of EE and/or DNR artefacts, because of processing done to the digial intermediate. It appears to be a 'trend' actually. The move to 4k DI will make at least the EE less likely to be used and/or almost unnoticable to the viewer (since you can double the freq range to compensate aperture loss).

The EE even on 2k DI is usually of such high freq (read: thin), that it is inconsequential for the outcome of a DVD (in case anyone wants to start pointing the finger at DI EE as a relevant source for ringing on DVD). It will be slightly visible on the HD transfer the DVD is derived from, though.

Yet, the amount of ringing on the HD transfer or the latter DVD is more determined by
1.) Edge enhancement, through:
- aperture correction of the film->HD telecine (if the HD transfer isn't derived directly from the DI)
- enhancements in the HD transfer post processing

2.) Resampling Artefacts, through:
- HD->SD downconvertion
- vertical filtering to minimize flickering (and to lower entropy)
- horizontal filtering to lower entropy
- additional filtering and freq quantization in MPEG encoders

3.) MPEG ringing / mosquito noise

The most relevant are 2) and 1).

HD-Video based movies (e.g. Session 9, AOTC, Once Upon a Time in Mexico)

Movies shot on HD can exhibit quite a bit of EE, due to:
- the default aperture correction build into the cameras
- enhancements in the camera; sometimes enabled for HD-Video (e.g. sports), but thankfully disabled in most major HD-film projects like AOTC.

The ringing on HD sourced material is slightly more distracting as DI ringing, especially if enhancements on the camera are involved.


SD- / DV-Video based movies (e.g. 28 Days Later)

Movies shot on DV can exhibit a lot of EE, due to:

1.) Edge enhancement, through:
- the default aperture correction build into the cameras (a lot lower freq than on HD!)
- enhancements in the camera; often enabled
- enhancements in post processing (to make lowly SD source resolution 'acceptable' on film; bad concept)

2.) Resampling Artefacts, through:
- SD->HD downconvertion or SD->film printing
- vertical filtering to minize flickering in the camera itself

Most of the severe ringing in 28 Days Later is most likely due to digital enhancements in the camera and post processing.



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#12 of 25 OFFLINE   Ed St. Clair

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Posted May 25 2004 - 06:47 PM

I saw ringing in the theatrical presentation of The Last Samurai. When Cruise is walking on the ridge.
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#13 of 25 OFFLINE   Haggai

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Posted May 26 2004 - 12:52 AM

I'm pretty sure I saw some EE in Kill Bill Vol. 2., in the black and white opening sequence. Specifically, some of the shots inside the church have a glow/halo sort of thing going on around Uma.

#14 of 25 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted May 26 2004 - 01:11 AM


Those are deliberate lighting effects, not EE. DP Robert Richardson is famous for that sort of thing. (You see it a lot in Casino as well.)

This is a good example of why I phrased my initial answer as I did. Discussions of EE on this forum have routinely addressed the problem of an artifact that has been added to a film during its transition to home video. In a theatrical presentation, there are many effects that may look like EE but really aren't. And, to the extent that genuine EE appears in a film as a by-product of the technical means used to create the film, I would argue that it's part of the look of the original (as is film grain) and should be preserved in the translation to home video.

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#15 of 25 OFFLINE   Patrick McCart

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Posted May 26 2004 - 01:29 AM

Sometimes, "edge enhancement" is really film-based artifacts. For example, the "ringing" in The Grapes of Wrath seems to be a side-effect of the dupe used for the restored version. Also, a scene in Sunrise has white "ringing" around the couple due to a composite process being used.

#16 of 25 OFFLINE   Haggai

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Posted May 26 2004 - 01:44 AM


Ah, ok, thanks, Michael. I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about when it comes to the two subjects in question here (EE and cinematography/lighting effects), so it's good to hear from someone who does. Posted Image

#17 of 25 OFFLINE   Ken_McAlinden

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Posted May 27 2004 - 01:01 AM

Standing in th Shadows of Motown includes some vintage video clips transferred to film with heavy edge enhancement. I'm sure there are other documentaries that have done this as well. Regards,
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#18 of 25 OFFLINE   Tim Hoover

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Posted May 27 2004 - 02:04 AM

That's no joke, Matt. Some of the EE was three feet wide when projected on the big screen!
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#19 of 25 OFFLINE   Mitch Stevens

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Posted July 11 2004 - 10:32 AM

A lot of people (including myself) noticed some EE in the theatrical print of "Charlies Angels 2: Full Throttle." I remember discussing it, back when the movie first came to theaters. There were about 50% of people who said that they did see it, while the other 50% of the people said that they didn't see it, or it was intentional (halos - on Angels). I don't think it was intentional at all though.

#20 of 25 OFFLINE   AndyVX

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Posted July 11 2004 - 11:33 AM

Anyone have any screen captures that show this? Maybe I've seen it in movies but just never cared enough to be bothered by or aware of it.
Andrew




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