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HDTVs that don't take 720p?


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#1 of 21 Rob Dawn

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Posted April 15 2004 - 07:37 AM

I plan on buying an HDTV-Ready RPTV this summer and have been doing some reading on 720p. For now I am looking at Mitsu (doesn't support 720p) and Sony (does) but am not set on these yet. I will also be buying a DirecTV HD TiVo box to do my sat and OTA HDTV viewing.

I have a couple questions:

1) If a set does not accept 720p, what happens with ABC broadcasts in 720p? Does the set take the 720p signal and convert to 1080i or 480p or would the STB have to do that?

2) And what about an XBOX that can do 720p? (And who knows what PS3 will do?) Can I not make use of that on a set that doesn't support 720p?

Thanks,
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#2 of 21 Dan Wesnor

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Posted April 15 2004 - 08:18 AM

Most sets do not support 720p. The ones that do don't support 1080i.

Most STB's have a switch that lets you select from 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

Devices that don't support the input of your set will need a scaler between them and the TV.

If the set doesn't support 720p inputs, and has an internal tuner, it will convert 720p to 1080i internally. When looking for a set with a built-in tuner, you need to see something like "supports all 18 ATSC formats" in the documentation.

#3 of 21 nick_rh

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Posted April 15 2004 - 09:22 AM

Quote:
1) If a set does not accept 720p, what happens with ABC broadcasts in 720p? Does the set take the 720p signal and convert to 1080i or 480p or would the STB have to do that?

The STB, if it's worth its salt, should convert the 720p to 1080i (or 480p). Of the TVs that DON'T accept 720p, I don't think there are any that can convert 720p to 1080i (I may be wrong, but I haven't seen any). Plasma and LCD TVs that are 720p native can usually convert 1080i to 720p, however.

Quote:
2) And what about an XBOX that can do 720p? (And who knows what PS3 will do?) Can I not make use of that on a set that doesn't support 720p?

Again, not that I know of. The Xbox doesn't do any format conversion so you'll either have to use standard-def mode or get a 720p native TV. (Some Xbox games use 1080i or 480p, so you could still make use of those.)

#4 of 21 Rob Dawn

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Posted April 15 2004 - 10:11 AM

Guess I should have added a third question:

3) If the STB converts the 720p to 1080i, is the PQ going to be noticeably degraded versus sending the native 720p to a set the can accept it?

Thanks again,
Rob
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#5 of 21 nick_rh

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Posted April 15 2004 - 11:15 AM

Quote:
3) If the STB converts the 720p to 1080i, is the PQ going to be noticeably degraded versus sending the native 720p to a set the can accept it?

720p on a set that supports 720p is almost definitely going to look better than it would when it's converted to 1080i. However, as a person who owns a CRT RPTV that only takes 1080i, I can say that 720p converted to 1080i still looks great...just as good as native 1080i, if not better.

#6 of 21 Eric Hahn

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Posted April 15 2004 - 12:20 PM

I think it is a compromise, I have a mits, and I always seem that the 720 broadcasts are a little softer than the 1080I, but that is my native resolution, (football), but every broadcast differs in quality, and I am being extreemly picky, It all looks great,

check out the hitachi, they might take 720 and convert it to thier native resolution(i am unsure) but in Mitsubishi either the internal tuner or stb will convert it to 1080I

also the new mits will stretch the 1080I for the 4:3 broadcasts, it comes in handy if you do not want to watch black bars, on hd broadcasts that are not hd if you know what I mean.

#7 of 21 Richard Paul

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Posted April 15 2004 - 04:38 PM

I recommend getting an HDTV that can accept both 720p and 1080i. Although it is likely that both the PS3 and X-box 2 will be able to convert 720p to 1080i I still wouldn't gamble on it.

There are many HDTV's that have a native resolution of 1080i that can accept 720p. Sony is one of several manufacturer’s that make all their current 1080i HDTVs capable of accepting 720p. It is not even expensive to do since even the Zenith C27V36, which is a 27" HDTV that sells for $600, is capable of accepting both 720p and 1080i.

#8 of 21 Steve Schaffer

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Posted April 16 2004 - 02:28 PM

I don't think there are any crt based sets any more that will display 720p natively. There are some that won't accept it at all. Sony's prior to the WS-500 series (03 models) downconverted incoming 720p to 480p. WS-500 and up (WS-510 and 550) convert incoming 720p to 1080i, as do almost all crt based sets that accept 720p.

As far as stb conversion of 720p to 1080i for display on a native 1080i HD set, I've owned 2 such stbs and never saw any difference between native 1080i and 720p converted to 1080i by the box. I get ABC and ESPN HD in 720p upconverted to 1080i as well as several native 1080i channels. Given comparable program source (HD video as in live sports or most all programming on Discovery HD and
HDNet) I see absolutely no difference in pq between the native 720p on ABC or ESPNHD converted by the box and native 1080i from Discovery HD or HDNet.

The big difference in HD pq is between film sourced and HD video sourced material, not in the scanrate of the broadcast station. HD is like well mastered dvd in that it faithfully reproduces all the film grain and other cinematographer's dramatic tricks on a film based show or movie, while video sourced material has that "looking through a window" effect. One is not necessarily better pq than the other, but there is a difference.
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#9 of 21 Shane Martin

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Posted April 17 2004 - 05:43 AM

Quote:
I don't think there are any crt based sets any more that will display 720p natively.
To my knowledge and research, you are correct.

#10 of 21 Richard Paul

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Posted April 17 2004 - 03:20 PM

There are no HDTVs using CRTs that output in 720p. But there are many that will accept 720p and convert it to 1080i. It is neither difficult nor expensive for an HDTV to accept a 720p signal, but to shave off that $5 cost there are still many TV manufacturers that make there HDTVs only accept 480i, 480p, and 1080i.

The reason you may want a HDTV to be able to accept 720p is mainly for sources that only output 720p. At the moment that basically is just the X-box yet future game consoles may also output 720p. An HDTV that can accept 720p may also have a better scaler than one placed in a STB or a game console. There is no disadvantage for an HDTV to accept 720p and several advantages. As such I would recommend an HDTV that can accept both 720p and 1080i regardless of its native resolution.

#11 of 21 Chris Homer

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Posted May 02 2004 - 03:54 AM

I realize this post is a couple of weeks old, but I'm looking at the Sony KP51WS510 and noticed on page 42 of the manual found here that "This projection TV is capable of receiving 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i digital TV formats (note that 720p is displayed as 480p).

Now I have a PS2 and not an Xbox where this would be a factor, but would like to have some security for future upgrade to the next PS that may output a 720p like the Xbox.

#12 of 21 DuWayne

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Posted May 03 2004 - 07:35 AM

The TV you are looking at will accept a 720p signal, but you won't be able to display it. If what you typed is correct, then any 720p signal will be displayed as 480p. In simpler terms, its not worth it. You would basicly get nothing out of it besides a progressive signal.

For those of you who are thinking the Next XBOX/PS will have built-in scalers... They won't! It just doesn't make sense. The game console is the original source; So if a game supports 480i/p and 720p, if you enable 720p on the console, then all source material used will be 720p (ex. Textures, bitmaps, etc.) Same for 1080i games. There isn't any scalling being done. If this wasn't the case, then "supporting" 720p wouldn't be an issue with any game, but quality of the graphics would be.

#13 of 21 Danny Beck

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Posted May 03 2004 - 08:44 AM

The current Toshiba HD RPTVs can accept and display a 720p image. At least according to the most recent Best Buy ad. Check it out for yourselves. For the 46" Toshiba it actually says "displays 720p".

#14 of 21 Dave_vega

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Posted May 03 2004 - 09:51 AM

my TV does not display 720p..will a scaler allow the 720p signal from the xbox to be upconverted to 1080i to my HDTV? any help would be appreciated..thanks

#15 of 21 david*mt

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Posted May 03 2004 - 10:34 AM

I have a Toshiba 42H83 and it will accept 720p and convert it to 1080i.

#16 of 21 DuWayne

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Posted May 03 2004 - 10:53 AM

Dave_vega,

You don't need to spend money on a scaler if your display will accept the 720p signal. As long as you can accept it, your display will convert to native res.

#17 of 21 Dave_vega

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Posted May 03 2004 - 03:54 PM

DuWayne..I guess my set does not accept the signal because when i enable 720p on the xbox dashboard all I get are wavey lines through the screen..they are the same lines I get when the signal is 480i..my set does not accept 480i on the HD inputs..would I need a scaler for this?

#18 of 21 DuWayne

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Posted May 04 2004 - 05:20 AM

What is the model/Brand of your TV?

#19 of 21 Nathan_R

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Posted May 04 2004 - 05:40 AM

Some old CRT RPTVs did natively display 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. My Panny does this. As someone with the ability to display 720p and 1080i, my opinion is you're not missing much with the 720p -> 1080i conversion. Posted Image
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#20 of 21 Dave_vega

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Posted May 04 2004 - 08:12 AM

DuWayne..it is a philips 46pp9302..i'm pretty sure it has no clue what to do with 720p..lol


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