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Dvd Audio


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16 replies to this topic

#1 of 17 OFFLINE   Jamie Colquhoun

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Posted April 05 2004 - 11:27 AM

Just bought a Denon-dvd2200. When I play a dvd audio disk
should the audio be dolby digital (5.1). My receiver is not detecting a 5.1 source. I am using a toslink cable connected to my denon avr4800 receiver.
very confused!!!!!

#2 of 17 OFFLINE   ScottCHI

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Posted April 05 2004 - 11:47 AM

the way you have it connected, yes it should probably play as dd or dts. almost all dvd-audio discs contain the same audio as dvd-video dd and/or dts tracks, which is how you're playing it if you're playing it through a digi connection; as a dvd-video.

but, no, that's not correct if you want to enjoy dvd-audio or sacd. you MUST use the analog outputs to enjoy hirez music in either of those formats. it is possible to use only 2-channel hirez with that player, if your receiver doesn't have the 6-channel analog inputs necessary for hirez AND multichannel music, but you still MUST use an analog connection.

a toslink connection will not pass either dvd-a or sacd hirez music. nor is that receiver designed to decode those formats. it must be done at the player, hence the analog connection.
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."

#3 of 17 OFFLINE   Charles Gurganus

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Posted April 06 2004 - 01:00 AM

Jamie, you need to go into the DVD setup menu and turn the Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams to ON. Then your receiver should be getting the 5.1 signal.
Charles

#4 of 17 OFFLINE   ScottCHI

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Posted April 06 2004 - 04:13 AM

Quote:
Jamie, you need to go into the DVD setup menu and turn the Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams to ON. Then your receiver should be getting the 5.1 signal.
the original question was:
Quote:
When I play a dvd audio disk should the audio be dolby digital (5.1)?
the answer is NO. if you play a dvd video disc THEN the audio should be in dd or dts 5.1. but a dvd-audio disc plays as dvda hirez and cannot be passed through the digi connection.
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."

#5 of 17 OFFLINE   Steve_AS

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Posted April 06 2004 - 05:22 AM

Quote:
When I play a dvd audio disk should the audio be dolby digital (5.1)?

The real answer is IT DEPENDS on how you have connected the player, how you have set up the player, and what version you choose to play on the DVD-A's own menu. DVD-Audio discs commonly contain Dolby Digital olr DTS versions on the same disc, along with the DVD-Audio version. YOu cannot pass the DVD-Audio version over the digital (optical) link. You can only pass the non-DVD-A versions. So if you want to listen over your digital connection you must 1) have the player set up to properly pass DD or DTS (e.g. set these bitstreams to ON in your DVD player's setup menus), 2) have a receiver that decodes DD or DTS and 3)select the Dolby Digital or DTS version from the onscreen 'top menu' of the DVD-A disc.

If you want to play the DVD-Audio version, you must use analog connections (6 of them for the surround mix) and select the analog input of your receiver. You should also select the DVD-A version on the onscreen menu (assuming your player doesn't default to the DVD-A version). Of course, you must also have a player that can 'decode' DVD-A. Otherwise it can ONLY play the Dolby Digital or DTS versions.

#6 of 17 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted April 06 2004 - 05:52 AM

There is no menu system that allows you to select between the DVD-V and DVD-A. The player is set for DVD-A or DVD-V priority on the 2200, and you will get a corresponding menu for each case, which will not allow you to access the other format on the disc; ie, you cannot select the DVD-A tracks from the DVD-V menu (I haven't seen any discs this way so far anyway). So the first thing you need to do is go into the menus and set the player to DVD-A priority and then, as Steve notes, you must use the multi-channel analog outputs (you can use the two mains alone for 2ch, and select 2ch DVD-A tracks in the menu). This is how I am using mine, as I have my SACD hooked to my M/C inputs on my receiver already.

With my 2200, bitstream and DTS were on by default, so you should check the settings, but they are likely already correct for DVD-V.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#7 of 17 OFFLINE   Charles Gurganus

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Posted April 06 2004 - 06:39 AM

Scott, I realized what his original question was, I just took the approach that if YOUR answer didn't ring a bell, mine would!

He said "My receiver is not detecting a 5.1 source.", so I THINK my answer had some relevance. Sometimes you have to read between the lines with some of these noob questions. That is all I was trying to do.

Now go back to your "guess what sub" thread of yours!
Charles

#8 of 17 OFFLINE   Tim_Stack

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Posted April 06 2004 - 07:13 AM

I have the same model player - all you have to do is to hook up 6 analog cables & push the "Digital" button on the front panel to toggle the Digital output. If you have digital off, and you still hear the music - it's DVD-A.

#9 of 17 OFFLINE   Jamie Colquhoun

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Posted April 06 2004 - 07:55 AM

I guess i should explain better.
I have hooked up the 6 analog rca's to my receivers EXT-IN.
Both dvd audio and sacd work fine.
BUT.... The disk also supports Dolby digital.
When i have the receiver (AVR 4800) set to auto
and play the disk my receiver detects a digital signal but not 5.1. I just wanted to do a sound comparison between dvd audio and dolby digital.
The dvd players bitstream is set to on.
When i play a movie with the same unit my receiver detects the dolby digital track with no problem.
I hope this is clearer.
Thanks, any input please?

#10 of 17 OFFLINE   ScottCHI

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Posted April 06 2004 - 07:59 AM

Quote:
Scott, I realized what his original question was, I just took the approach that if YOUR answer didn't ring a bell, mine would!

He said "My receiver is not detecting a 5.1 source.", so I THINK my answer had some relevance. Sometimes you have to read between the lines with some of these noob questions. That is all I was trying to do.

Now go back to your "guess what sub" thread of yours!
i know. i realized that your answer was both right and wrong (does that make sense?) when i was posting. i just wanted it to be clear to james and anyone else that stumble into the thread.
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."

#11 of 17 OFFLINE   ScottCHI

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Posted April 06 2004 - 08:02 AM

Quote:
When i have the receiver (AVR 4800) set to auto and play the disk my receiver detects a digital signal but not 5.1. I just wanted to do a sound comparison between dvd audio and dolby digital.
Posted Image

hmmmmmmm. how does it play it back exactly? what's the display on the 2200 say that it's doing?
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."

#12 of 17 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted April 06 2004 - 08:14 AM

To get DVD-V, you have to set the player to give priority to VIDEO. It is in the last menu on the right (I forget the menu name). THEN, you can play the DD tracks, but not the DVD-A tracks. You CANNOT switch between them on the fly, AFAIK.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#13 of 17 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted April 07 2004 - 05:54 AM

Welcome to the free-spirited and wacky world of dvd-audio. Posted Image

1) When playing a dvd-audio disc on a dvd-audio player AND

2) you have the player set to play the dvd-audio tracks AND

3) there is a digital signal emerging from the player's digital output............

.........this does not mean you are going crazy because this is an optional feature of the dvd-audio format.

While shutting down the digital output can be done with dvd-audios, it is NOT a mandatory feature. The disc's author chooses whether or not to turn off the digital output.

I own several dvd-audios that output a digital signal but none are in multichannel form. IIRC a dvd player's digital outputs just physically can't handle a higher density data stream (for example, six channels of 96/24 PCM). Also, all the dvd-audios I own downsample to 48kHz.

And from doing my own experiments with my Pioneer DV-656A dvd-audio player and Technics SA-DA8 receiver, I found out multichannel MLP tracks--i.e. compressed PCM--are downmixed by the player into two channel 48kHz PCM by watching the player's on-screen menu and the receiver's front-panel decoder display. Edit: (I thought I better add this so others can see what I did a year ago) For example, one of the discs I used to verify this, Linda Ronstadt's What's New, has a specific--and loud--sax solo in one of the rear channels: while doing nothing else while I switched to the dvd player's digital output (via the receiver's digital/analog dvd input selector button), that sax clearly reappeared in my front mains.

The downside to this is that people that don't know about this feature will think that when a disc like this is being played, the digital output is activated and the receiver's decoder display says "PCM AUDIO", they will think they are hearing hi-res all the time. And much worse, usually the receiver will activate one of its own 5.1 simulated surround modes (DPLII, DTS:Neo, Hall effect, etc) leading to some confusing and/or disappointing sonic experiences: "Hey, this disc sounds like just like my CDs played with DPLII & or DTS:Neo. What a ripoff!!" (I am not saying DPLII or DTS:Neo sound bad, just that they won't sound like a dvd-audio disc's true multichannel mix).

Lastly, there are dvd-audios that do output the stereo hi-res 96/24 PCM (non-MLP) format through the player's digital output--usually these are discs sold by audiophile labels so you can use your own outboard digital decoder.

LJ

#14 of 17 OFFLINE   Steve_AS

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Posted April 09 2004 - 05:11 AM

Quote:
I guess i should explain better.
I have hooked up the 6 analog rca's to my receivers EXT-IN.
Both dvd audio and sacd work fine.
BUT.... The disk also supports Dolby digital.
When i have the receiver (AVR 4800) set to auto
and play the disk my receiver detects a digital signal but not 5.1. I just wanted to do a sound comparison between dvd audio and dolby digital.
The dvd players bitstream is set to on.
When i play a movie with the same unit my receiver detects the dolby digital track with no problem.
I hope this is clearer.
Thanks, any input please?

Probably you are not really accessing the DVD-V part of the DVD-A disc.

Try this: when you are playing what you THINK is a 5.1
Dolby Digital track from a *DVD-A*, press the 'display' or 'info' button on the Pioneer player's remote. (I forget which one). This will bring up a window on your TV that tells you, among other things, what format the source is: Dolby Digital, DTS, or DVD-A, and will tell you the surround configuration: 3/2.1 for a 5.1 mix, 4.0 for a four channel, etc). I'm betting it will show you it's DVD-A, not Dolby.

If so, you have to tell your *player* to default to DVD-Video, in one of its setup menus. Then when you reload the disc the menus for the Dolby Digital or DTS mixes should come up. At this point you can select the 'surround' mix, assuming it doesn't play automatically. NB: on my DV-45a, changing the default for DVD-A from DVD-Audio to DVD-Video only works for one session; when you unload the disc the player defaults back to DVD-Audio for DVD-A.

(It may also be possible to go to the DVD-V tracks directly from the DVD-A domain, if you know the 'groups' on the disc but this is tedious and doesn't always work.)

#15 of 17 OFFLINE   ScottCHI

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Posted April 09 2004 - 05:19 AM

Quote:
Just bought a Denon-dvd2200.
Quote:
press the 'display' or 'info' button on the Pioneer player's remote.
Posted Image
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."

#16 of 17 OFFLINE   Neil White

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Posted April 09 2004 - 05:29 AM

Quote:
There is no menu system that allows you to select between the DVD-V and DVD-A.


Not always true. Just to confuse matters more, some DVD-A discs (Queen's A Night at the Opera for one) will show a top level menu allowing the selection of DTS or MLP Hi Rez tracks. This is all with the player set to DVD-A. In fact, I thought this was normal for a while and could not understand why I could not access the DVD-V based audio tracks (DD, DTS etc) on DVD-A discs that reported having them. I was then pointed to the fact that normally you have to set the priority in the players set-up menu (and by the way, my Denon 2815 does not have such a menu - DVD-A is assumed). But my point is, some discs have top level menus allowing selection of ALL tracks on the disc.

N

#17 of 17 OFFLINE   Steve_AS

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Posted April 11 2004 - 10:15 AM

ScottCHI:

*Denon*, not Pioneer, then.

Might be beside the point anyway.
Your player's manual indicates that the format and the surround configuration for any souce is displayed on the front panel of your player, right hand side. If you are really accessing the DVD-V part of your DVD-As, then these should light up as 'Dolby Digital' or DTS, and not LPCM or PPCM.

The main thing , if you want to acces the Dolby Digital tracks on a DVD-Audio, is that you want your Denon's 'player mode' to be VIDEO, not AUDIO, as per the options tree on p. 22. Dolby Digital or DTS are considered 'Video' modes by DVD players, regardless of whether the disc has a movie on it or not. To set your 'player mode' to VIDEO, see p 36 of your manual.


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