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2004 NHL Playoffs: Round 1


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#41 of 813 Christ Reynolds

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Posted April 07 2004 - 04:08 AM

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I'm not blaming the refs, but a Lindros, a Tkhachuk or a Primeau will always get more notice than a St. Louis or Gionta, it's just human nature
nothing to do with human nature. the fact is, the first three guys are much more physical and are more likely to take penalties. st louis and gionta will never be dirty players. i think lindros is (was) one of the dirtiest players in the nhl, all his hits were with his arms out, and with his elbows. the refs watch the guys who are more likely to commit infractions. thornton is one of them.
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Nope, no defensive skills there
i never said he had no skills, i laughed at the 'gifted' statement. although boynton is a solid defenseman, we're not talking about lidstrom here. remember, i never said he didnt have skills.
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I personally do not see the fact that Thornton gets penalties as that much of a problem
but, dont you see, it doesnt HAVE to be this way. every great nhl player has had all the slashes and hacks, probably from the same guys. if joe could keep his head on a little more, he could be out of the box more, and scoring more. you can play a hard game without playing a dirty game. there were a few games i saw this past year that joe (or murray) took an unnecessary penalty near the end of the game, and it resulted in a power play goal that changed the result of the game negatively for boston. i dont blame him for going after someone who intentionally tries to hurt him, but he seems to think that he is above being checked. a good friend of my fathers is the GM and president of an NHL club, and hs says all his scouts and most of the rest of the scouts around the league say the same thing...the key to taking out thornton is to get in his face a little, he will lose his temper. imgaine if thats how easily lemieux or gretzky could have been taken out. no way i am even thinking about comparing joe to those 2 guys, but i think joe has the potential to really blossom as a star, but he is his own worst enemy.

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#42 of 813 Jeff Gatie

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Posted April 07 2004 - 04:41 AM

We shall agree to disagree, but your point about St. Louis or Gionta not being dirty is exactly the human nature I am talking about. Gionta always has his stick high and is known to slash on occasion. There are many small players who have been known to make up for physical prowess with the hold, grab, slash method, (see Madden, et al.). They just do not get called as often because they are not the physical presense a bigger guy is. Witness the crosscheck by Perrault on Thornton, it was not called. Why? IMHO, it is becasue the officials give that to a small guy and take it away from the bigger ones. When Joe was complaining about the hooks/slashes/clutching going on, most of the officials/commentators felt that Joe should be able to "battle through" because he is a "big man". Does it make those tactics any less illegal because they are done by a smaller man? A Joe Thornton who does not play an edgy game (an edge which is magnified by his size) is an ineffectual Joe Thornton. I'll take the nasty one with 100 PIMS over the ineffectual one with 20 PIMS. At least mine will be effective. As far as Joe thinking he is above getting "checked" (as if draping yourself over his shoulders is "checking"), if he felt that way he would blow up at someone 6 times every shift (or do the cowardly thing - dive). He does neither.

Quote:
never said he had no skills, i laughed at the 'gifted' statement. although boynton is a solid defenseman, we're not talking about lidstrom here. remember, i never said he didnt have skills.


You also never said he did, you completely laughed at my comment. A +17 and an All-Star appearance may not qualify him as Lidstrom, but it is far above "solid" (or "decent" for that matter).

#43 of 813 Richard Travale

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Posted April 07 2004 - 05:52 AM

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They won't take a dive like other teams, and while honorable, can be seen as to put them at a slight disadvantage to other teams.

Are you kidding? Bergeron has to be considered as a member of the Canadian Diving team at the next Olympics.

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#44 of 813 Richard Travale

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Posted April 07 2004 - 07:03 AM

Paul, that statement is quite ironic considering your speil about the Bruins honour and how the referees are always judging against the Bruins. Posted Image

Isn't fan rivalry fun? Posted Image It's gonna be a great series.

Habs in 6.

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#45 of 813 Jeff Gatie

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Posted April 07 2004 - 07:16 AM

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Paul, that statement is quite ironic considering your speil about the Bruins honour and how the referees are always judging against the Bruins



Paul's speil was about how the Bruin's do not dive. He stated the well known evidence that Joe Thornton does not dive (I dare anyone to argue that fact). He also backed it up with the stat about being awarded the least number of PP's last season. You came back with a biased, anecdotal comment about Bergeron and the "Canadian Diving Team".

See the difference??

BTW, I predict when the Habs are the home team, they will get a powerplay before the Bruins and within the first 4 minutes. Wanna bet?

#46 of 813 Steeve Bergeron

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Posted April 07 2004 - 12:13 PM

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Bergeron has to be considered as a member of the Canadian Diving team at the next Olympics.
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You came back with a biased, anecdotal comment about Bergeron and the "Canadian Diving Team".
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Bergeron, despite being the youngest player in the league, is actually one of the most physical players on the Bruins.
You guys, please stop talking about me like I'm not even here! Posted Image

#47 of 813 Christ Reynolds

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Posted April 07 2004 - 05:58 PM

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You guys, please stop talking about me like I'm not even here!
you must have been out practicing your diving!

in defense of p. bergeron, i dont think he is the diver type. i hope he and samsonov stay on a line together for a long time, those guys will be (already are) a terrible pair to play against.

CJ
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#48 of 813 Scott Merryfield

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Posted April 08 2004 - 12:50 AM

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It's hard, as a Bruins fan, not to rail against the "officiating" that's been going on since the dawn of time the Bruins and Habs. Especially in Montreal. Especially in the playoffs. Especially in light of the Kerry "isn't my hair terrific" Fraser fiasco that occurred a few weeks ago in Montreal. Time and time again, the Bruins get jobbed, plain and simple.

Riiiggghhtt. How about the no-call when some no-name Bruin goon performed a two-handed chop on Stephan Richer during the playoffs, breaking his wrist?

#49 of 813 Jeff Gatie

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Posted April 08 2004 - 03:32 AM

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I'd much rather talk about the Bruin's complete DOMINATION of the hated Habs last night. 3-0, and it wasn't even that close.


I was at the game and I agree 100%. Aside from the Souray/Koivu shots from the high slot (easily handled by Raycroft) the "speeedy" Habs ran no rings around our "immobile" defense. Boynton and Gonchar were horses last night and the Green/Lapointe tandem was a 2-man wrecking crew (the definition of "playoff grit"). I just wish that the Habs would really try to go after Thornton more than they did. Although he played well with no ill effects seen, Joe needed the burr under his saddle in order to really dominate. Instead he was constantly pulling up before the hashmarks. Get him mad, please! That said, rookies Bergeron and Raycroft played like 10 year playoff veterans (unlike Ryder) and the Habs had no answer to Nylander/Samsonov. Couple that with Gonchar (and Knuble's big ass in front of the net) on the PP, it was lights out.

#50 of 813 Jeff Gatie

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Posted April 08 2004 - 05:07 AM

BTW, I know this thread is a little light on posts, but I see I have no takers on the "Habs get the first power play at home in the playoffs" bet. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Posted Image

#51 of 813 Jeff Ulmer

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Posted April 08 2004 - 07:30 AM

One down, three to go. Posted Image

The Canucks finally got their PP together, which squished the Flames. While the Flames scored on their first 5 on 3, they didn't even register a shot on the second, or its consecutive power play. It was a good contest, but I still say Canucks in 5... or less.

As for officiating, I have never been very complimentary about it. Obvious penalties are glossed over, while many, many questionable calls are made, plenty of them last night.

#52 of 813 Jeff Gatie

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Posted April 08 2004 - 07:58 AM

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As for officiating, I have never been very complimentary about it.


Officiating was pretty good in the B's vs. Habs. Some missed, but overall pretty good. Of course it was not in MTL. Also, no Habs have been injured (oops, appeared injured and then plays the next gamePosted Image ). That would result in 1 PP total in the next 2 games for the B'sPosted Image .

#53 of 813 Jeff Gatie

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Posted April 12 2004 - 02:40 AM

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Oh yeah, and throw in some more cheapshots and more worthy "Canadian National Diving Team" performances by Mike Ribeiro.


That was not diving, that was laying on the ground scissoring your legs worthy of a soccer player (Ribero's father played professional Soccer), then lauging it up and taunting the bench. Gutless display not worthy of Hockey and Marty Lapointe's cold stare said it all. He did not even give him the honor of a retort, just his cold icy blues. This one's gonna get ugly.

Do not expect any return on the booing when it get's back to Boston. No offense to any Canadians, but we just don't see the relevence in booing our neighbors to the north.

#54 of 813 GARY C

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Posted April 12 2004 - 04:48 AM

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No offense to any Canadians

Pretty wide brush your using there (can I borrow it I need to paint the house this weekend). I'm Canadian, wasn't at the game and don't like that kind of stuff (and I'm sure there are at least one or two people up here like me).

Simple fact is it happens everywhere when people get lost in the fandom of the sport (there have been booings on both sides of the border).

I hope you are right and no one in Boston boo's the anthem tonight*, but it only take a few idiots to stir the pot. Much like Montreal, I seriously doubt the entire arena was booing the US anthem, but more than enough of a share of dumbass fans (and they know no borders, race or creed). And if there is booing, I can guarantee you I won't be here tomorrow say "man those US fans are classless", when in reality it will only be a small percentage of the fans doing it (if at all).

*or whenever it gets back to Boston
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#55 of 813 Jeff Gatie

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Posted April 12 2004 - 05:07 AM

My "no offense" was not painting with a broad brush, I was just saying that to stave off the broad brush accusations. I in no way think this is indicative of the majority of Canandians, hence my "no offense" comment. I also did not want to offend Canadians by making it seem their (apparent) hatred of Americans has little to no relevence down here. We simply see acts like this as a reflection on the class of the people doing it, not as a critique that we should do some closer self-examining of our country.

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Much like Montreal, I seriously doubt the entire arena was booing the US anthem


I would like to think so, but it was clearly audible over the fine singing of the performer, who tried his best to sing over it. It was in no way just a few fans.

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I hope you are right and no one in Boston boo's the anthem tonight


The game is not back in Boston until Thursday. If history is any prediction, the last time this happened, Billy Guerin appeared over the Jumbotron and asked the fans for respect of the anthems. As a result, there was cheering for both songs and not a boo in the place (I was at the game). To be honest, I doubt Guerin's message was needed, Boston fans only lack class at the end of games when they have a nasty habit of throwing stuff on the ice.

#56 of 813 Jeff Gatie

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Posted April 12 2004 - 05:26 AM

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Yes, it did occur once in Boston


Nope, it occured in the Detroit-Vancouver games and the Philly-Ottawa games. It also occured in Toronto once. It was loudest and most noticable in Montreal, so much so that the team president issued an apology. I was at all the games in Boston (first 2 were before the booing occured in Montreal) and the message came in game 5. There was no booing at any of the Boston home games and there was significant cheering for O' Canada at game 5.

#57 of 813 GARY C

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Posted April 12 2004 - 06:09 AM

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hence my "no offense" comment.

Sorry then, I mis-read the comment.
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#58 of 813 Jeff Gatie

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Posted April 12 2004 - 06:37 AM

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Sorry then, I mis-read the comment.


No harm, no foulPosted Image . I personally like Canadians, they have a great love of hockey and I enjoy talking pucks with them as it is my favorite sport and the only one I played growing up. But as much as I love it, I do not worship it with the religious fervor that Montreal does, which is both good and bad, I guess, especially if it carries over into incidents such as this.

#59 of 813 Jason GT

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Posted April 12 2004 - 07:27 PM

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No offense to any Canadians, but we just don't see the relevence in booing our neighbors to the north.


Jeff,

Please be more careful with your words. Whether you mean to "paint with a broad brush or not" you are indeed doing so.

Not only are you (intentionally or not) negatively generalizing about people in Canada, but you are also making it sound like every person in the US is "above" boorish behaviour (and the past indicates that not all are).

Anyways, my duties as a Canadian Citizen require me to cheer for the Canadiens. If Boston were playing Toronto however.... Posted Image

Actually on a side note, for any Canadians reading this thread (non-TO fans, too) -- would you cheer for the 'Lafs if they made the Cup finals against a US team? At this point I don't know if I would!

#60 of 813 Christ Reynolds

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Posted April 12 2004 - 08:09 PM

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you are also making it sound like every person in the US is "above" boorish behaviour
(i believe) it was philadelphia, the "city of brotherly love", who booed santa claus.

CJ
And then when I feel so stuffed I can't eat anymore, I just use the restroom! And then I CAN eat more!


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