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Denon 3805 sound vs Yamaha 2400 sound


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24 replies to this topic

#1 of 25 Tom_Mack

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Posted April 02 2004 - 01:03 AM

I have a Yamaha 2400 and it is just a tad bright for my room/Paradigm speakers. I have quilts hanging at some key places that have helped some, but when audio gets to be above 80db, it sounds quite uncomfortable.

I would be able to trade up to the Denon 3805 if I wanted too. How does the Denon 3805 sound compare to the yamaha sound?

I have heard the denon 3802 on my speakers too. How does the sound of the 3805 differ from the 3802?

Please let me know what you think. I know my speakers are part of the problem, but I can't afford to upgrade them just yet...

Thanks!

#2 of 25 Shane Martin

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Posted April 02 2004 - 01:22 AM

Have you run the room eq yet on the 2400?

If you have done that and it didn't work, then its possible that the receiver is the problem but the speakers are probably more the problem than the amp. For whatever reason Denon has a much warmer signature to their sound and I think alot of that is their internal dacs. If you know of a place that will let you try one at home, I would do that. That way if the difference isn't worth the dough you can not take any loss on the deal. From a few people I trust the 3805 doesn't sound like the 3803 due to alot of new internal pieces. I would suspect that the 3805 will sound different than the 3802.

#3 of 25 Tom_Mack

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Posted April 02 2004 - 01:36 AM

Yes, I have run the EQ and it helps some, but when listening for longer periods of time, I start to have a headache.

Quote:
From a few people I trust the 3805 doesn't sound like the 3803 due to alot of new internal pieces. I would suspect that the 3805 will sound different than the 3802.


Any specifics on the differences in the sound from the 3803 to the 3805? The one thing that I disliked about the 3802 was that the voices in a movie sounded a little dull and undetailed. Any chance this may have improved?

Thanks.

#4 of 25 Shane Martin

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Posted April 02 2004 - 01:52 AM

Quote:
Any specifics on the differences in the sound from the 3803 to the 3805? The one thing that I disliked about the 3802 was that the voices in a movie sounded a little dull and undetailed. Any chance this may have improved?
Unfortunatley not.
Quote:
Yes, I have run the EQ and it helps some, but when listening for longer periods of time, I start to have a headache.
This is listener fatigue. I'd be willing to bet its a speaker issue for certain. This is something that is rarely tested by folks as they listen for 10 minutes and then boom buy the speakers. I wanted to avoid this so I listened for atleast 30 minutes each if not up to an hour.

You could try to play with the treble controls on your eq some but if that doesn't resolve the issues you might have to turn the volume down quite a bit. If that doesn't continue to help you make due, then its the speakers that have to go.

Still I would try the new Denon out and see how that goes. If you have a place with a fair return policy or will let you demo one at home, this is another bet to help you rule out your speakers.

#5 of 25 Tom_Mack

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Posted April 02 2004 - 03:09 AM

Quote:
Unfortunatley not.

So the dull voices remain.... I couldn't stand that with the 3802. That makes my decision harder....

#6 of 25 Wayne Ernst

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Posted April 02 2004 - 03:58 AM

Tom,

One other suggestion might be to have the crossovers for your speakers modified. This might "tame" some of the fatigue that you are sensing from the 2400.
"My reality check ... just bounced"

#7 of 25 Shane Martin

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Posted April 02 2004 - 04:50 AM

Quote:
So the dull voices remain.... I couldn't stand that with the 3802. That makes my decision harder..
Tom,
You misunderstood. I mean Unfortunately I don't know of any specifics. I don't know if the sound has changed between the 2 series but there are some new dacs they are using. I know folks that have upgraded from the 3803 have been pleased with the sound quality upgrade they made if that says anything.

#8 of 25 Tom_Mack

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Posted April 02 2004 - 05:09 AM

Thanks Shane -

I'll have to see if there is any way to try out the 3805 at home before deciding. Unfortunately, this was bought at Tweeter and I believe that I have the choice of trading in the 2400 and hoping the Denon smooths out everything a little or keep the 2400. I don't believe they will allow a test of the 3805 without giving up the 2400.

#9 of 25 Brent_j

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Posted April 02 2004 - 05:33 AM

Tom,

I had a 2400 for a couple of months. I know what you are talking about with regard to the sound being uncomfortable at higher volume with the 2400. Even with tweaking the internal EQ's did not do much to eliminate this problem, the voices on a good DTS track just made my Polk's hard on the ears at higher volumes. (around -13.0 to -10 dbs)

My salesguy at Ultimate Electronics let me swap my 2400 for the 3805 strait across (paid right around $850 w/tax for the 2400, so I got a good deal with the 3805)

This has been my first Denon product as I have always owned Yamaha's in the past.

I can tell you with the swap I have not had that problem with the 3805. My ears can now listen to an entire movie at high volume without the negative side effects of the 2400. It has really made my Polk's sound fantastic, and way more power is getting to them. The power supply/transformer in the Denon is twice the size of the Yamaha's.
This has just been my personal experience as I was also having second thoughts about swapping the Yamaha at first, but I am very glad I did.
I also want to make it clear that I really enjoyed the Yamaha, in fact there are more things I like about the Yamaha than the Denon, but as far as the sound goes, to my ears and speakers its the CLEAR winner.

If there is a way your local retailer will let you "test" the 3805 I would certainly do it. Then hopefully you will have the same conclusions that I have had! I would like to know if it was just my setup or if you really notice a big difference vs. the 2400 like I have, keep me posted please!

Brent.

receiver: Denon 3805
Center: Polk CSi5
Fronts: Polk RTi10's
Surrounds: Polk FXi3's
Rear Surround: Polk RM2600 Center
Sub: Polk PSW404x2 (thinking about getting an Infinity PS-10)

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#10 of 25 Tom_Mack

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Posted April 02 2004 - 06:39 AM

Brent -

Thanks for the opinion. The sound you describe on the 2400 is pretty much exactly what I am experiencing. I hate jumping to the remote to turn the volume down during loud scenes.

What was it that you liked better about the 2400 than the 3805?

As for the sound on the 3805, are the voices in movies still as detailed as the 2400? I had a wierd experience with the 3802 with dull voices in the center channel.

Lastly, any kind of delay picking up a DVD digital signal? I had that with some other receivers lately...

Thanks!!!

#11 of 25 JeremySt

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Posted April 02 2004 - 06:46 AM

I just got my AVR 3805, and I think the best improvement they made is the sound quality. I had a 3803 and 3802, and the 3805 blows them away sonically, IMO. Alot more deliniation between the front channels, and a more open sound in general.

#12 of 25 Brent_j

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Posted April 02 2004 - 08:22 AM

Tom,

Quote:
What was it that you liked better about the 2400 than the 3805?


The layout of the 2400's back is MUCH cleaner than the Denon, with regard to inputs for pretty much everything, the speaker input post are MUCH smaller than the Yamaha's (I had a hard time inserting my 12GA. speaker wire, very small) I dont like the placing of the component cables (horizontal vs. vertical) Its just not as clean IMO.
I also miss the amber display of the Yamaha, the Denons is just a dull blueish color.

Quote:
As for the sound on the 3805, are the voices in movies still as detailed as the 2400?


I find the dialog more detailed than on the 2400. It is more pronounced than the 2400 and more rich and deep sounding with my Polks. The EQ for the Denon I have found to be more noticeable when changing settings. I just tweaked my center while watching Gladiator and the EQ in the Denon is really nice.

Quote:
Lastly, any kind of delay picking up a DVD digital signal?


Not at all, it picks up everything right away, the switching between other components is really fast as well, no delay what so ever.

Again, all this is just my humble opinion, I am sure there are others who would gladly disagree with me.
If I had it to do over again, I would do it in a heartbeat, the Denon is just a much better receiver for my power hungry Polks and to my ears (my wife can also tell a difference..... now that is saying something Posted Image)
And all of this is coming from a Yamaha bigot.

Hope that clears your questions up Tom, Let me know if you have any more!

Brent.

receiver: Denon 3805
Center: Polk CSi5
Fronts: Polk RTi10's
Surrounds: Polk FXi3's
Rear Surround: Polk RM2600 Center
Sub: Polk PSW404x2 (thinking about getting an Infinity PS-10)

My Home Theater

#13 of 25 Tom_Mack

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Posted April 02 2004 - 08:43 AM

Thanks Brent, you have helped a lot!

#14 of 25 Brent_j

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Posted April 02 2004 - 02:13 PM

No problem Tom. Please keep me informed to let me know if you have swapped receivers, I would like to listen to your feedback/experience!

Have fun with your new toy, if you decide to grab it.

Brent.

#15 of 25 Tom_Mack

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Posted April 02 2004 - 06:05 PM

Well, I made the swap and WOW!
There is such a big difference in the sound of the two receivers. So far the Denon 3805 is a perfect match for my speakers/room!

Now I have only played a few stereo CDs, watched about an hour of TV in PLII and watched a couple chapters of Toy Story 2, but I realize now what the Yamaha was missing...the midrange! The Yamaha 2400 had a strong treble and bass presence without a warm midrange presence. The pianos on Elton John CDs were pleasant instead of tinny and the brass on my Maynard Ferguson CD were crisp and detailed without hurting my ears! And best of all no headaches or fatigue at all after hours of listening!

I plan to watch a couple of movies tomorrow to seal the deal.

Thanks for all the help! So far, I am very glad I made the choice!

#16 of 25 Shane Martin

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Posted April 03 2004 - 12:21 AM

Congrats Tom.
Sometimes you need to listen for yourself to make up your own mind. I'm glad you are enjoying your equipment.

#17 of 25 Wayne Ernst

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Posted April 03 2004 - 02:03 AM

Quote:
There is such a big difference in the sound of the two receivers. So far the Denon 3805 is a perfect match for my speakers/room!


Tom, I'm very glad that this all worked out for you. In your situation, it really seemed like the Denon was the way to go. I'd love to be able to "use" a Denon AVR-3805 for a weekend and see what it has to offer for my setup. Posted Image
"My reality check ... just bounced"

#18 of 25 Brent_j

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Posted April 03 2004 - 06:20 AM

Right on there Tom, like I said, it was a big difference for me as well!.

Hopefully with your use out of it today, you will have made the right choice. Let us know!

Did you find the back of the Yamaha better? or is that just me....
what about the dialog detail??

Brent.

#19 of 25 Wayne Ernst

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Posted April 03 2004 - 07:54 AM

Tom,

Tell us how the remote is for the AVR-3805. I just saw the advertisement in a magazine and thought the remote looked pretty snazzy. Posted Image

Posted Image
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#20 of 25 Tom_Mack

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Posted April 03 2004 - 03:08 PM

I watched "Brother Bear" today and it sounded great! The dialog was clear (much different than my experience with the 3802). The biggest difference was that the dynamic changes had a bigger impact. The 3805 amp just seems more powerful!

I can't say that I like the back of the Denon any better or worse than the Yamaha, but I agree that the binding posts are smaller (12 gauge wire just fits).

As for the remote, so far I like the Yamaha 2400 remote much better. I tend to like "real" buttons better than "virtual" ones. Unfortunately, the buttons don't always line up exactly with the icons. When the number pad appears - you need to press the dead center of "0" but need to press just to the left of "9". This remote may be replaced.

Other minor things I noticed between the two receivers: The Denon doesn't seem to be able to rename source names on the display. I liked being able to have "XBOX" displayed when selecting my game console instead of "VCR 2".
Also the Yamaha seemed to have the rear speakers more active in PLII or Neo:6. That is not necessarily a good or bad thing...just different. Another odd difference is that on the Denon, PLII and Neo:6 sound almost exactly the same while on the Yamaha Neo:6 sounded much better than PLII.


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