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Columbia to go completely Blu-ray by 2005 (from DavisDVD)


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#41 of 122 RobertR

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Posted March 31 2004 - 07:42 AM

Quote:
you have to wonder what Sony was thinking when they came up with the name "Blu-Ray" for their HiDef DVD format?


What name would you have picked to distinguish the Sony format from the HD-DVD format? Obviously it had to be different, or people would think it was the same thing.

#42 of 122 GlennH

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Posted March 31 2004 - 08:07 AM

It amazes me how many people want to read those poorly structured words at DavisDVD to mean either:

a. that Sony/CTS will stop making DVDs in late 2005, or

b. that Sony/CTS will release their entire video catalog on Blu-ray all at once.

Come on people, let's use a little common sense. These are the words:
Quote:
Columbia TriStar Home Entertainment has pledged to release all of its home video product in the Blu-ray format by the end of 2005.
The wording is bad and ambiguous, but taken in the context of reality to me it is abundantly clear what is actually meant, i.e.,:

"Columbia TriStar Home Entertainment has pledged to begin releasing a Blu-ray version of all it's home video releases by the end of 2005."

Because no other interpretation makes any sense. No studio would scrap DVD anytime soon, and no studio would or could release all their video product on a new format instantly.

Given all this, it is important to remember that this news tidbit does not contain direct quotes, as Nils pointed out. If at all true, this news is big enough that it should start showing up all over the place, so we should get more details soon enough.

#43 of 122 Dennis Nicholls

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Posted March 31 2004 - 08:24 AM

Bill Hunt is now reporting the same story over at the Bits. See http://www.eet.com/s....29&_loopback=1

Quote:
will the Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats coexist peacefully the way SACD and DVD-Audio do?


"Peacefully?" Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Hey Jack, ever hang around the Music forum here?

I can see it now. You will need a DVD-A/HD-DVD drive and a SACD/Blu-Ray drive in your equipment rack.......
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#44 of 122 Ricardo C

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Posted March 31 2004 - 08:37 AM

I can't believe the amount of bellyaching and resistance to change in this thread. It's like the laserdisc fans who didn't want to have anything to do with DVD.

No one said anything about dropping DVD. No one said anything about going exclusively BluRay. At least whine about something real. God. You sound like Star Wars fans Posted Image (I should know, I am one Posted Image)

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#45 of 122 Rolando

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Posted March 31 2004 - 08:46 AM

Well I want to apologize in advance if so far I am the one who is totally lost but...

Isn't this GREAT NEWS?!

And I don't just mean the fact that a Hi Def format DVD is coming but that Blue Ray technology is being used.

A competing format to HD-DVD? Great. I was so upset (yes I need a life) to hear they were sticking to red laser but were going to solve the problem of storage by further compressing the pic and sound. OH GOODY! Posted Image

If I remember correctly Blue Ray was always the better tech for best picture and sound with minimal compression right? last thing I want is a blown up .avi file on my big screen HDTV.

I am glad to hear that the right format is being used by someone and hopefully this will catch on to other big studios. I want REAL HD movies not what HD-DVD is giving us just for the sake of backward compatibility.

Of course CTHV will keep making DVDs, they would be crazy not to. I am glad people with the big screens will have a choice. Will it create confusion? BARELY. most people will stick with DVD they way many clung to VHS in the late 90s. most people don't care and don't need the extra resolution. it's the tiny % of people with HDTV who actually care and can see the difference on their screen (a small % of the previously mentioned %) that want HD on DVD.

Let's face it, don't we all know that one guy who bought himself that big HDTV and still watches VHS on it set to "zoom" and thinks it fine?

the small percentage of us who want HD on DVD will not be confused. the ones who actually know the difference between 480i, 720p and 1080i won't be confused. WE'LL be explaining the difference to wal mart boy. (no offense, just a generalization in the name of bad comedy)

This will only affect a small amount of us which also means expect quite a price tag on it. I expect it to be treated quite like LD. Niche market, limited releases, high prices. I am ok with it. to get the movie I love at the best resolution with best sound possible? I am easily willing to pay double what we pay for the average DVD even if it is movie only. I mean do we need HD filmographies? Posted Image
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#46 of 122 Carlos Garcia

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Posted March 31 2004 - 08:58 AM

"It's like the laserdisc fans who didn't want to have anything to do with DVD."

The only difference is that laserdisc never caught on with the mainstream public. I have a great feeling HD-DVD will never catch on either. Oh yes the tech geeks will go crazy over it, buying everything they can. The only difference is that the majority of DVD buyers, the older crowd living on a budget, and those who simply want to watch a movie now and then, but aren't big collectors (and they represent the majority of the public)...they are the ones who won't bother to upgrade every piece of machinery into the next generation. To me this means that by 2010 the number of people with regular DVD machines and regular DVD discs will still outnumber HD-DVD owners. By the time the studios realize the format never reached the potential of regular DVDs, I'm sure yet another format will have been introduced. Think of it as Beta vs. VHS. Beta was far superior in picture quality, but people already had a large library on VHS and didn't bother to switch over.
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#47 of 122 Dennis Nicholls

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Posted March 31 2004 - 09:02 AM

Quote:
Beta was far superior in picture quality, but people already had a large library on VHS and didn't bother to switch over.


IIRC Beta actually came out first. But they wouldn't license the technology so only Sony-produced decks were available at the beginning. Only when it was too late (and after JVC's licensing model was successful) were others permitted to make Beta decks.
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#48 of 122 Sean Bryan

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Posted March 31 2004 - 09:03 AM

I'm looking forward to this. And I hope Sony's actions serve to speed-up HD-DVD's arrival as well.

I think I will finally buy a D-VHS player sometime this year now that I can have a nice little collection of titles I'm interested in such as:

Alien
X-Men
X2
Moulin Rouge
Fight Club
Master and Commander: The far side of the World
Independence Day
Die Hard
The Bourne Identity
There's Something About Mary
U571
Ice Age
...and quite a few more

So I'm looking forward to finally having pre-recorded HD movies this year, but an optical disc format is definitely preferable.

I have no problem with getting both. I imagine the time will come when I'll actually have a D-VHS, Blue Ray, and HD-DVD players in my equipment rack. Absolutely one machine and one format would be what I'd prefer, but I'm just not going to worry about "picking the winning format" and will instead just enjoy whatever pre-recorded HD movies are available to me.

Although if I did have to pick just one format, it would be whichever one has The Lord of the Rings! Posted Image
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#49 of 122 Nils Luehrmann

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Posted March 31 2004 - 09:04 AM

Rolando,

HD-DVD is also based on blue laser, but it has a red laser as well so that HD-DVD players can play both. At one point there was another competing Hi-Def DVD format that was soley based on red laser, but it is no longer a candidate for adoption.

There is a lot of misleading propaganda regarding these two formats, mostly coming from the Blu-Ray group.

If you are truly curious about the differences between the two Hi-Def DVD formats you should consider doing a search on this forum as well as AVS.

Just to get you started you might try these two threads:

Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD

HD-DVD to use WMV Codec

#50 of 122 PeterTHX

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Posted March 31 2004 - 09:12 AM

Sheesh you guys. All I keep hearing is "Sony Sony Sony".
It's NOT beta or minidisc all over again. For one thing MATSUSHITA (Panasonic, JVC) is in the group. So is:

"LG (Zenith), Philips, Samsung, Pioneer, Sharp, Hitachi and Thompson Multimedia (RCA).

HD-DVD hardware wise doesn't even compare. Sure, NEC and Toshiba are big players, but the Blu-Ray org far far outweighs them.

#51 of 122 Sean Bryan

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Posted March 31 2004 - 09:14 AM

Quote:
A competing format to HD-DVD? Great. I was so upset (yes I need a life) to hear they were sticking to red laser but were going to solve the problem of storage by further compressing the pic and sound. OH GOODY!


The HD-DVD format is NOT "sticking to red laser". The HD-DVD format will also use a blue laser (last I heard). However they will also use "more efficient" compression. Actually, one potential negative of Blue Ray is that it looks like it will stick with MPEG-2 instead of using a newer, more efficient codec.

I have no doubts that Blue Ray and HD-DVD will BOTH look great. The only real issue here is which format will have the room for better sound, etc...
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#52 of 122 Ricardo C

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Posted March 31 2004 - 09:14 AM

Quote:
The only difference is that laserdisc never caught on with the mainstream public. I have a great feeling HD-DVD will never catch on either. Oh yes the tech geeks will go crazy over it, buying everything they can. The only difference is that the majority of DVD buyers, the older crowd living on a budget, and those who simply want to watch a movie now and then, but aren't big collectors (and they represent the majority of the public)...they are the ones who won't bother to upgrade every piece of machinery into the next generation. To me this means that by 2010 the number of people with regular DVD machines and regular DVD discs will still outnumber HD-DVD owners. By the time the studios realize the format never reached the potential of regular DVDs, I'm sure yet another format will have been introduced. Think of it as Beta vs. VHS. Beta was far superior in picture quality, but people already had a large library on VHS and didn't bother to switch over.

And my answer is: SO? Are you saying LD should never have been introduced because it never hit critical mass?

I have an HD display, and am planning to upgrade to a projector sometime this year. I'm hoping to use a screen in excess of 10 feet wide. Any HD format is good news to me.

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#53 of 122 Brian-W

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Posted March 31 2004 - 09:15 AM

Funny thing about this thread is how misled and misinformed people are, that they'll twist information to the point it doesn't even resemble what we're discussing.

I've done it plenty in other posts, and will do it again (even though I know it'll continue to be misconstrued): Blu-Ray is a CONSORTIUM of electronics companies one of which is Sony. There are TEN electronics companies in the Blu-Ray consortium. All of those companies (except Dell/HP) are also in the DVD-Forum, but do not support HD-DVD.

Just like the DVD-Forum, it would be incorrect to associate the DVD-Forum as being Toshiba, yet it continues with Blu-Ray and Sony.

Just because Sony announced support, everyone interprets that as gospel Sony is this big bad electronics company. If Panasonic still owned Universal, you can bet your ass Universal would have had a press release supporting Blu-Ray about the same time.

Back when a similar situation occured in Japan (circa. 1992) with Hi-Vision laserdisc, Panasonic and Sony both owned movie studios, and when the format was introduced, guess who had movies out? Universal and Columbia. And not B titles, but triple A titles (E.T., Jurassic Park, Close Encounters, Lawerence of Arabia, etc.). The same thing is happening here, Sony owns a movie studio and thus is launching support of a format it's involved with, big deal.

Jack, I agree with you, I don't know what the issue is with Columbia quality. The reason of "they support P&S, isn't that reason enough" is weak. EVERY studio supports P&S, and it's unfortunately becoming more prevelant than it once was.

Additionally Jack, your argument about initial DVD support is one everyone is overlooking. Warner, MGM, Columbia/Sony and Universal supported DVD from Day 1, while Disney, Fox, Paramount were DiVX supporters. Same thing might, might not happen with HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.
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#54 of 122 Brian-W

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Posted March 31 2004 - 09:19 AM

Quote:
There is a lot of misleading propaganda regarding these two formats, mostly coming from the Blu-Ray group


Nils, back this statement up with proof - I'd like to see what "mis-leading propaganda" you're alluding to.
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#55 of 122 GlennH

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Posted March 31 2004 - 10:08 AM

Quote:
Jack, I agree with you, I don't know what the issue is with Columbia quality. The reason of "they support P&S, isn't that reason enough" is weak. EVERY studio supports P&S, and it's unfortunately becoming more prevelant than it once was.
Well, since you wonder, while there are certainly worse offenders here's my issues with CTS, circa 2004:

- Lack of OAR support on a significant number of titles, after nearly universal OAR and anamorphic support in the earlier days of DVD, save a few "family" titles. "Every studio" does not "support P&S" in the way CTS does now - for example Fox and Paramount always make an OAR version available, even if they also release a P&S version.

- Edge Enhancement/Filtering. In the early days of DVD, CTS was regarded as having the best looking transfers. But they often don't cut it these days in comparison to others like Fox or Warner. There's way too much ringing. Big budget modern movies like Spider-Man come out looking too soft. They need to replace their MPEG encoders and learn how to do state-of-the-art transfers.

- Marketing strategy. Special editions, Deluxe Editions, Superbit, Superbit Deluxe. Warner and Fox don't market "Superbit" but their ordinary releases look as good or better to my eyes than most CTS Suberbit titles, which often still have edge enhancement. Just do it right the first time already!

This is especially hard to fathom given that CTS is owned by Sony, who should have an interest in making movies look their best on all those fancy widescreen sets and projector they're selling. Which is presumably why they are pushing Blu-ray.

#56 of 122 Nils Luehrmann

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Posted March 31 2004 - 10:12 AM

Quote:
Nils, back this statement up with proof - I'd like to see what "mis-leading propaganda" you're alluding to.
Not alluding, just stating the facts. Let's see, there are so many to choose from, but seeing as we are on the topic of statements made by Ben Feingold, here are some nice quotes he made at CES during an interview with Brett Sporich:
Quote:
Most simply stated, Blu-ray is the best of breed.
(hmmm, no that doesn't sound like propaganda to me) Posted Image

Quote:
Blu-ray translates to better audio and picture quality and a greater capacity for content
(this was in response to the greater storage capability of Blu-Ray over HD-DVD - notice no mention that Blu-Ray uses MPEG2 which not only takes up all that extra storage capacity, but also is more prone to compression artifacts)

Quote:
Blu-ray will be the first recordable hi-def DVD format to appear on store shelves by Q4 of next year or Q1 of 2006.
This is pure speculation.

Quote:
The copy protection that Blu-ray provides is light years ahead of what we have today. and better than the BDCPS anti-piracy protection that is being proposed by the Toshiba/NEC solution.
Posted Image

Quote:
Additionally, nearly every world-class car manufacturer and consumer electronics company supports Blu-ray over Toshiba/NEC HD-DVD9.
Posted Image

That's from just one short interview. Judging from your responses in this thread I am left to assume you are a staunch supporter of the Blu-Ray camp. Personally I like some of what each format has to offer, and only wish they could have come together to create a 'best of both worlds' format. However, the amount of propaganda coming from the Blu-Ray group is a tad nauseating.

Regardless, Blu-Ray is a worthy competitor and at the very least will be very successful in the PC market and of course as the heart and soul of Sony's upcoming PS3 game console.

#57 of 122 Brian-W

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Posted March 31 2004 - 10:30 AM

On your points:

1) DVD Forum says the same thing

2) DVD Forum claims the same thing with MPEG4

3) Blu-Ray recorders are already available in Japan. Not speculation, that's fact. Doesn't matter if it's not in the U.S., the Japanese release proves Blu-Ray not only works, but is a real product. LG has stated they'll bring out a U.S. model this fall (speculation at this point).

4) DVD-Forum claims the same thing

5) I haven't seen that quote.

Sorry Nils, everything you've provided is something the DVD-Forum is equally as guilty with. They claim pretty much the same things I view it as just one forum vs. another forums format.

Regarding PS3 using Blu-Ray, now THAT is pure speculation. Personally, I doubt it. It would have been a coup for Sony to replace memory cards on PS2 with memory stick. I can't seem them using Blu-Ray, but we'll know in a matter of months.
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#58 of 122 Eric F

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Posted March 31 2004 - 10:39 AM

HD-DVD is easier/cheaper to duplicate than Blu-Ray, and when it comes down to it, cost is what will win out.

#59 of 122 Dan Brecher

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Posted March 31 2004 - 10:43 AM

Quote:
5) I haven't seen that quote.


The car manufacturer and consumer electronics company quote? I believe, although not 100% certain, that Ben Feingold said that in an interview with Hollywood Reporter back in December of last year, or January of this.

It was in that same interview that Feingold made the Playstation 3 hints along with the tiresome storage capacity argument regarding Blu-Ray versus the AOD discs (which as we all should know is somewhat moot given HD-DVD wouldn’t use MPEG II).

Dan (UK)

#60 of 122 Brian-W

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Posted March 31 2004 - 10:59 AM

Quote:
HD-DVD is easier/cheaper to duplicate than Blu-Ray, and when it comes down to it, cost is what will win out.


That statement is propaganda. It has yet to be proven (not stated, but PROVEN) by either side.

Speaking of costs, MPEG-2 workstations have a huge installed base, something that no one in Hollywood is eager to spend money and replace.

Lastly, it won't be cost that wins out - it'll be studio support, and cost isn't the only (let alone main one) issue that's on the table.
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