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Panasonic E80 Dubbing Question (1 Viewer)

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Sorry if I missed the answer to this somewhere, but I just bought an E80 HDD/DVD recorder, love it overall, but am somewhat confused by the TERRIBLE documentation. I've figured out all but two (to me) annoying questions: 1) assuming I record something to the HDD on the FR mode, do I then have to use FR again at "real time" when dubbing to the DVD drive? (i.e. how do I use high speed dubbing in that situation), and 2) I can see how to use a playlist for lumping several items on a DVD, but is there any way to replicate the scene markers/musical numbers on a program so you can zip to one and then play through to the end of the film? Again, my apologies if this has been covered before, but I didn't see where. Thanks for any help.
 

Michael Reuben

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Assuming you've set the "DVD Compatibility" setting to "on" so as to enable high speed dubbing, you'll be able to use that mode with a hard disc recording made with the FR setting. Just remember that, when the E80 records at FR, it assumes that the recording is designed to fit on a single DVD-R and adjusts the bitrate accordingly.


I think you're referring to chapter markers. As you've probably already discovered, the E80 automatically inserts these at about 5-minute intervals when you record to DVD-R in anything but high-speed mode. To get them in high-speed mode, you have to set them manually in a cumbersome procedure that I'm still mastering -- so I'll have to let someone else explain it. :b

M.
 
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Thanks, Michael. It does seem logical that when you record to HDD in FR, and tell it the program length, it should be able to figure out how to high speed dub onto the DVD...I've only done three programs so far (duping over my laserdisks so I can get rid of the machine and the 10 titles I had accumulated), and dubbing in real time is a P.I.A. Of course, I've had no "coasters" so far even with really cheap disks, so perhaps the real time dubbing accounts for some of that. On the second point, I hadn't noticed the 5-minute chapter markers, but even that doesn't really solve the issue of how you click right onto a particular scene or musical number. I guess we'll learn together!
 

Michael Reuben

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The short answer is that you set markers on the HD recording where you want the chapter stops to go. In high-speed dubbing, the markers are converted to chapter stops.

Setting markers is a pain, though. You can do it with a button on the remote, but the better way is to use the on-screen display.

M.
 

alan halvorson

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I'll give you an alternative to inserting markers that is even more of a pain. I use this procedure when there is a natural break point, such as between cartoons.

Instead of inserting a marker, divide the program into titles. This has the advantage of being able to name each title, something that you can't do to markers but is desireable for cartoons and videos. It also allows you to mix the order, although I only rarely do this. The downside is that the titling scheme used by Panasonic, although well devised for what it is, is quite tedious, and you are left wondering why they didn't allow for a keyboard, even if they don't include the keyboard (everybody has a spare keyboard lying around, right? They're pretty cheap even if you have to buy one). There likely will be a very slight hesitation between titles on playback.
 
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Thanks, Alan. I can see that would be great for a group of "programs" bunched on a disk. All I want to be able to do, though, is take a musical film and be able to jump directly to some number or other and then play through to the end. Maybe the Japanese don't watch TV that way!
 

Mark McAlister

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Alan,
When recording this way, what procedure do you use from start to finish.

step 1 give the disc a title
step 2 record
step 3 after the program is finished recording and you've only used up a portion of the disc, what do you do press stop and let it read info to the disc then repeat steps 1 and 2 to fill up the rest of the disc?
step 4 do you finalize the disc after each program or just after the disc is full.

I've got the DMR-E50 which does not have the hard drive.
I've been recording 1 hour programs in XP mode, but as far as cartoons or getting 2, one hour episodes per disc kind of confuses me. I would like to get more episodes per disc.
 

alan halvorson

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Mark: My procedure works best if your recorder has a hard drive. Without a hard drive, you can still do it but you must really pay attention to your starts and stops because you can't just erase the excess.

On recorders without hard drives, stop the program where desired, and then name the title. Alternatively, I believe you could title them all after you've copied all you're going to copy.

When you've copied all you're going to copy, and named the titles, finalize the disc. DON'T finalize it after each title; finalizing prevents all further copying to that disc.

If you want record two one-hour episodes per disc, you must use the SP speed. Don't worry, SP is quite adequate most of the time.

I highly recommend obtaining a recorder with a hard drive. Your recording experience changes radically when you don't have to pay attention and can edit the result. The E80 is being replaced by the new model, E85. I don't know what the differences between the models are. You should soon be able to find an excellent deal on the E80, if you don't want to spring for the E85.
 

Dave Danek

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In having done just a few minutes research on the E80H and the E85H, one difference is that the E85H has a Scart 21 pin connector for connections to RGB (I assume plasma and LCD) monitors. The addition I had hoped for was still reserved for the E100 -- the E85H does NOT have a firewire connection :angry:

The manual for the E85 is here

I picked up an open box E80 at BB here in SF for $382. Will give it a test run and see. I have heard CC is blowing them out but prices vary by store. Folks have reported getting brand new units for $379 . . .
 

Dave Danek

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Since this thread is still fairly recent, I'll ask my q's here. I'm a newbie when it comes to this bizarre dubbing process of the E80. DVDShrink is a cakewalk compared to this thing!

So I want to get a 2:10 movie from my DirecTivo to DVD-R using my new Panasonic E80. Is the following the "best" (in terms of quality - bit for bit copying, and time - HS dub) method?

Tivo > E80 HD: transfer at SP
E80 HD > DVD-R: HS dub (at ?? speed: is SP automatically selected with a HS dub?)
-- assumes DVD dubbing compatibility on!

I think I've also read a different suggestion: the HD transfer of a 2:10 movie should be in FR mode. If I transferred in FR mode, do i have to set the max record time in the subsequent screen at 2:10? Will the E80 do a high speed dub of something on the HD saved in FR?

Needless to say, even after reading the godforsaken manual and researching here for quite a while, I'm still a little confused about the recording mode when dubbing from the HD to a DVD-R. Some general comments/concerns that would be helpful to clear up:

Using XP mode on the HD:
It seems that transferring to the HD in XP mode is only advised if subsequently dubbing programs less than 1:02 to a DVD-R in XP (because of re-encoding and real time dubbing issues). If I transferred a 2 hour program from my Tivo to the HD in XP (and it was erased from Tivo), should I split the program into 2 parts and transfer to 2 XP dvd-r rather than having the player re-encode to dub in SP?

FR mode on the HD:
Transferring to the HD in FR mode is reported to be the best method for programs between 1 and 2 hours. Is this because when dubbing to the DVD-R the E80 automatically chooses a bit rate between 9Mbps and 5 Mbps (XP and SP) and will fill a 4.7Gb dvd-r completely with the program?

If I have 3 41-42 minute programs that I want on one 4.7Gb dvd-r, to optimize quality should those be transferred to the HD in SP mode or FR mode? If FR mode, how do I set that up? Can three separate programs be dubbed to a dvd-r in high speed mode? Does it depend on whether they are stored on the HD in SP or FR?

Thanks for any insight/tips you can provide!!
Dave
 

Michael Reuben

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Let me at least make a start on some of those.


As it happens, I'm currently in the process of collecting season 7 of Buffy. When the commercials are edited out, the episodes are about 42 minutes each. I've been recording them in SP, and three of them will just fit on a DVD-R. Yes, you can transfer three separate programs in one high speed dub.

Notice that when you're in the dubbing list and select "high speed" as the transfer option, the display changes. Instead of showing you how much time remains on the DVD-R, it shows you how many megabytes. Watch that indicator as you add programs to the dubbing list; as long as the size of the programs to be transferred isn't more than the available space, you'll be fine.

FR would not be a good option. Whenever you set the E80 to record at FR, it assumes that the entire recording is designed to fit on a standard DVD-R. If it's a program lasting an hour or less, FR will record it at what amounts to XP, and you'll only be able to fit one program on the disc.

And yes, the E80 will do a high speed dub of an FR recording, as long as the compatibility switch was set to on.

M.
 

alan halvorson

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I've never tried dubbing three programs of this length to DVD-R. Mike says it works; I may have to try it.

Here's a trick that you might try when dubbing multiple programs and you'd like to use all the space available on the DVD-R. I've been dubbing Angel, Season 5 to DVD-R. After trimming and editing out the commercials, I'm left with about 45 minutes of program. I prefer dubbing only two episodes to DVD-R, meaning that if I used the SP speed, I am left with quite of bit of unused space on the DVD-R. To maximize quality. I set my timer to record Angel plus either a half hour before or after, and I use the FR speed. After editing, I am left with the same 45 minute program length, but now it's been recorded at a higher bit rate. Dubbing two episodes to DVD-R makes maximum use of the available space. Yes, I could have used the XP speed in the first place and dubbed at FR, but that would mean a re-encode and more time.
 

Dave Danek

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OK, this has been extremely helpful!

Alan - re your suggestion:



So that I understand what the E80 is doing here as I'm a little confused --

you are recording two separate 90 min programs (with added time) to the HD in FR speed. That puts the bitrate at say an avg of 6Mbps. After editing, you are still left with two 6Mbps programs that are 45 mins each in length. You HS dub those to disc in FR mode and the disc fills to capacity. If you recorded those 2 programs at SP, the HD would record them at about 4Mbps avg. and after HS dubbing, would take up 3/4 of the disc.

Got it. The only thing I don't understand is why you would add the 1/2 hour at either side of the timer recording. Is it that because you have to sort of trick the player into getting ready for the HS dub by recording the first program at 90 mins in FR (since that is what you wind up with after editing the 2 shows) by swapping in the other editing program for the commercials and junk you edited out of the first program? Hmm. Interesting!

Now maybe you understand why this thing seems quite bizarre at first. You won't learn anything like this in the manual of course. The learning curve on this machine is pretty high compared to most other components I've used. And the fact that the functions are not labeled/named intuitively (at least for me) makes it doubly difficult. I guess once you learn to understand how it does what it does, then you can start to master it!! Thanks for putting me on the path to enlightenment!!!!! :D

Dave
 

alan halvorson

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That is exactly what I'm doing. It would be very nice if the recorder would allow a choice of quality levels in increments between XP and SP, but it doesn't and so I use this workaround.

I happened to look at an E85 today at Best Buy. On sale for ~$663. 120G hard drive, some kind of programming service, and much faster dubbing speeds (32X, according to a spec the BB employee found). I really like that part, but I don't if it's worth shelling out another $700 a few months after the first time.
 

Brian Co

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The E-85 actually has a 4x drive which is identical to the E-100. The main advantage to the newly released E-85 is it now has the ability to dub a finalized DVD-R back to the HDD.
 

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