Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Panasonic E80 Dubbing Question


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
14 replies to this topic

#1 of 15 OFFLINE   Jeffrey Taylor

Jeffrey Taylor

    Agent



  • 34 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 23 2004

Posted March 29 2004 - 03:34 AM

Sorry if I missed the answer to this somewhere, but I just bought an E80 HDD/DVD recorder, love it overall, but am somewhat confused by the TERRIBLE documentation. I've figured out all but two (to me) annoying questions: 1) assuming I record something to the HDD on the FR mode, do I then have to use FR again at "real time" when dubbing to the DVD drive? (i.e. how do I use high speed dubbing in that situation), and 2) I can see how to use a playlist for lumping several items on a DVD, but is there any way to replicate the scene markers/musical numbers on a program so you can zip to one and then play through to the end of the film? Again, my apologies if this has been covered before, but I didn't see where. Thanks for any help.
Jeff

#2 of 15 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

Michael Reuben

    Studio Mogul



  • 21,769 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 12 1998

Posted March 29 2004 - 03:51 AM

Assuming you've set the "DVD Compatibility" setting to "on" so as to enable high speed dubbing, you'll be able to use that mode with a hard disc recording made with the FR setting. Just remember that, when the E80 records at FR, it assumes that the recording is designed to fit on a single DVD-R and adjusts the bitrate accordingly.

Quote:
but is there any way to replicate the scene markers/musical numbers on a program so you can zip to one and then play through to the end of the film?

I think you're referring to chapter markers. As you've probably already discovered, the E80 automatically inserts these at about 5-minute intervals when you record to DVD-R in anything but high-speed mode. To get them in high-speed mode, you have to set them manually in a cumbersome procedure that I'm still mastering -- so I'll have to let someone else explain it. :b

M.
COMPLETE list of my disc reviews.       HTF Rules / 200920102011 Film Lists

#3 of 15 OFFLINE   Jeffrey Taylor

Jeffrey Taylor

    Agent



  • 34 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 23 2004

Posted March 29 2004 - 04:46 AM

Thanks, Michael. It does seem logical that when you record to HDD in FR, and tell it the program length, it should be able to figure out how to high speed dub onto the DVD...I've only done three programs so far (duping over my laserdisks so I can get rid of the machine and the 10 titles I had accumulated), and dubbing in real time is a P.I.A. Of course, I've had no "coasters" so far even with really cheap disks, so perhaps the real time dubbing accounts for some of that. On the second point, I hadn't noticed the 5-minute chapter markers, but even that doesn't really solve the issue of how you click right onto a particular scene or musical number. I guess we'll learn together!
Jeff

#4 of 15 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

Michael Reuben

    Studio Mogul



  • 21,769 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 12 1998

Posted March 29 2004 - 06:26 AM

The short answer is that you set markers on the HD recording where you want the chapter stops to go. In high-speed dubbing, the markers are converted to chapter stops.

Setting markers is a pain, though. You can do it with a button on the remote, but the better way is to use the on-screen display.

M.
COMPLETE list of my disc reviews.       HTF Rules / 200920102011 Film Lists

#5 of 15 OFFLINE   alan halvorson

alan halvorson

    Screenwriter



  • 2,021 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 02 1998

Posted March 29 2004 - 07:16 AM

I'll give you an alternative to inserting markers that is even more of a pain. I use this procedure when there is a natural break point, such as between cartoons.

Instead of inserting a marker, divide the program into titles. This has the advantage of being able to name each title, something that you can't do to markers but is desireable for cartoons and videos. It also allows you to mix the order, although I only rarely do this. The downside is that the titling scheme used by Panasonic, although well devised for what it is, is quite tedious, and you are left wondering why they didn't allow for a keyboard, even if they don't include the keyboard (everybody has a spare keyboard lying around, right? They're pretty cheap even if you have to buy one). There likely will be a very slight hesitation between titles on playback.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa To the funny farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!!!
- Napoleon XIV

#6 of 15 OFFLINE   Jeffrey Taylor

Jeffrey Taylor

    Agent



  • 34 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 23 2004

Posted March 30 2004 - 02:01 AM

Thanks, Alan. I can see that would be great for a group of "programs" bunched on a disk. All I want to be able to do, though, is take a musical film and be able to jump directly to some number or other and then play through to the end. Maybe the Japanese don't watch TV that way!
Jeff

#7 of 15 OFFLINE   Mark McAlister

Mark McAlister

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 70 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 02 2001

Posted April 04 2004 - 03:20 AM

Alan,
When recording this way, what procedure do you use from start to finish.

step 1 give the disc a title
step 2 record
step 3 after the program is finished recording and you've only used up a portion of the disc, what do you do press stop and let it read info to the disc then repeat steps 1 and 2 to fill up the rest of the disc?
step 4 do you finalize the disc after each program or just after the disc is full.

I've got the DMR-E50 which does not have the hard drive.
I've been recording 1 hour programs in XP mode, but as far as cartoons or getting 2, one hour episodes per disc kind of confuses me. I would like to get more episodes per disc.
Mark McAlister

#8 of 15 OFFLINE   alan halvorson

alan halvorson

    Screenwriter



  • 2,021 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 02 1998

Posted April 04 2004 - 08:08 PM

Mark: My procedure works best if your recorder has a hard drive. Without a hard drive, you can still do it but you must really pay attention to your starts and stops because you can't just erase the excess.

On recorders without hard drives, stop the program where desired, and then name the title. Alternatively, I believe you could title them all after you've copied all you're going to copy.

When you've copied all you're going to copy, and named the titles, finalize the disc. DON'T finalize it after each title; finalizing prevents all further copying to that disc.

If you want record two one-hour episodes per disc, you must use the SP speed. Don't worry, SP is quite adequate most of the time.

I highly recommend obtaining a recorder with a hard drive. Your recording experience changes radically when you don't have to pay attention and can edit the result. The E80 is being replaced by the new model, E85. I don't know what the differences between the models are. You should soon be able to find an excellent deal on the E80, if you don't want to spring for the E85.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa To the funny farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!!!
- Napoleon XIV

#9 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave Danek

Dave Danek

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 59 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 16 2002

Posted April 09 2004 - 04:59 AM

In having done just a few minutes research on the E80H and the E85H, one difference is that the E85H has a Scart 21 pin connector for connections to RGB (I assume plasma and LCD) monitors. The addition I had hoped for was still reserved for the E100 -- the E85H does NOT have a firewire connection Posted Image

The manual for the E85 is here

I picked up an open box E80 at BB here in SF for $382. Will give it a test run and see. I have heard CC is blowing them out but prices vary by store. Folks have reported getting brand new units for $379 . . .

#10 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave Danek

Dave Danek

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 59 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 16 2002

Posted April 12 2004 - 12:07 PM

Since this thread is still fairly recent, I'll ask my q's here. I'm a newbie when it comes to this bizarre dubbing process of the E80. DVDShrink is a cakewalk compared to this thing!

So I want to get a 2:10 movie from my DirecTivo to DVD-R using my new Panasonic E80. Is the following the "best" (in terms of quality - bit for bit copying, and time - HS dub) method?

Tivo > E80 HD: transfer at SP
E80 HD > DVD-R: HS dub (at ?? speed: is SP automatically selected with a HS dub?)
-- assumes DVD dubbing compatibility on!

I think I've also read a different suggestion: the HD transfer of a 2:10 movie should be in FR mode. If I transferred in FR mode, do i have to set the max record time in the subsequent screen at 2:10? Will the E80 do a high speed dub of something on the HD saved in FR?

Needless to say, even after reading the godforsaken manual and researching here for quite a while, I'm still a little confused about the recording mode when dubbing from the HD to a DVD-R. Some general comments/concerns that would be helpful to clear up:

Using XP mode on the HD:
It seems that transferring to the HD in XP mode is only advised if subsequently dubbing programs less than 1:02 to a DVD-R in XP (because of re-encoding and real time dubbing issues). If I transferred a 2 hour program from my Tivo to the HD in XP (and it was erased from Tivo), should I split the program into 2 parts and transfer to 2 XP dvd-r rather than having the player re-encode to dub in SP?

FR mode on the HD:
Transferring to the HD in FR mode is reported to be the best method for programs between 1 and 2 hours. Is this because when dubbing to the DVD-R the E80 automatically chooses a bit rate between 9Mbps and 5 Mbps (XP and SP) and will fill a 4.7Gb dvd-r completely with the program?

If I have 3 41-42 minute programs that I want on one 4.7Gb dvd-r, to optimize quality should those be transferred to the HD in SP mode or FR mode? If FR mode, how do I set that up? Can three separate programs be dubbed to a dvd-r in high speed mode? Does it depend on whether they are stored on the HD in SP or FR?

Thanks for any insight/tips you can provide!!
Dave

#11 of 15 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

Michael Reuben

    Studio Mogul



  • 21,769 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 12 1998

Posted April 12 2004 - 03:17 PM

Let me at least make a start on some of those.

Quote:
If I have 3 41-42 minute programs that I want on one 4.7Gb dvd-r, to optimize quality should those be transferred to the HD in SP mode or FR mode? If FR mode, how do I set that up? Can three separate programs be dubbed to a dvd-r in high speed mode? Does it depend on whether they are stored on the HD in SP or FR?

As it happens, I'm currently in the process of collecting season 7 of Buffy. When the commercials are edited out, the episodes are about 42 minutes each. I've been recording them in SP, and three of them will just fit on a DVD-R. Yes, you can transfer three separate programs in one high speed dub.

Notice that when you're in the dubbing list and select "high speed" as the transfer option, the display changes. Instead of showing you how much time remains on the DVD-R, it shows you how many megabytes. Watch that indicator as you add programs to the dubbing list; as long as the size of the programs to be transferred isn't more than the available space, you'll be fine.

FR would not be a good option. Whenever you set the E80 to record at FR, it assumes that the entire recording is designed to fit on a standard DVD-R. If it's a program lasting an hour or less, FR will record it at what amounts to XP, and you'll only be able to fit one program on the disc.

And yes, the E80 will do a high speed dub of an FR recording, as long as the compatibility switch was set to on.

M.
COMPLETE list of my disc reviews.       HTF Rules / 200920102011 Film Lists

#12 of 15 OFFLINE   alan halvorson

alan halvorson

    Screenwriter



  • 2,021 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 02 1998

Posted April 12 2004 - 05:23 PM

Quote:
DVDShrink is a cakewalk compared to this thing


I've never used DVDShrink, but the E80 is a snap to use, I've always thought. True, the manual stinks, but I haven't referred to the manual for months.

Quote:
If I transferred in FR mode, do i have to set the max record time in the subsequent screen at 2:10


Yes, set the max record time to 2:10 - perhaps a minute or two more, to give yourself a little leeway. Be aware that this length is very close to the maximum that can be recorded to DVD-R before the Panasonic automatically switches to a lower resolution. Then dub the result to DVD-R using High Speed mode. High Speed mode is a digital to digital dub. High Speed mode is not really a "speed" in the same sense that XP, SP, etc. are.

Quote:
Will the E80 do a high speed dub of something on the HD saved in FR?


It doesn't matter what the original recording speed was.

Quote:
If I transferred a 2 hour program from my Tivo to the HD in XP (and it was erased from Tivo), should I split the program into 2 parts and transfer to 2 XP dvd-r rather than having the player re-encode to dub in SP?


This is a choice. Dividing a 2 hour program recorded at XP into two parts and dubbing both at High Speed maintains the quality of the original. Dubbing at SP will cause a re-encode and a loss in quality, but saves a disc. The question is, is this good enough? In my experience it is. I only record in XP if the program is 1 hour or less and is all I want to dub to a DVD-R. I record anything over 2 hours at SP and then split the program. Anything between 1 and 2 hours, I use FR.

Quote:
Is this because when dubbing to the DVD-R the E80 automatically chooses a bit rate between 9Mbps and 5 Mbps (XP and SP) and will fill a 4.7Gb dvd-r completely with the program?


You got it.

Quote:
If I have 3 41-42 minute programs that I want on one 4.7Gb dvd-r, to optimize quality should those be transferred to the HD in SP mode or FR mode?

I've never tried dubbing three programs of this length to DVD-R. Mike says it works; I may have to try it.

Here's a trick that you might try when dubbing multiple programs and you'd like to use all the space available on the DVD-R. I've been dubbing Angel, Season 5 to DVD-R. After trimming and editing out the commercials, I'm left with about 45 minutes of program. I prefer dubbing only two episodes to DVD-R, meaning that if I used the SP speed, I am left with quite of bit of unused space on the DVD-R. To maximize quality. I set my timer to record Angel plus either a half hour before or after, and I use the FR speed. After editing, I am left with the same 45 minute program length, but now it's been recorded at a higher bit rate. Dubbing two episodes to DVD-R makes maximum use of the available space. Yes, I could have used the XP speed in the first place and dubbed at FR, but that would mean a re-encode and more time.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa To the funny farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!!!
- Napoleon XIV

#13 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave Danek

Dave Danek

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 59 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 16 2002

Posted April 13 2004 - 05:19 AM

OK, this has been extremely helpful!

Alan - re your suggestion:

Quote:
After trimming and editing out the commercials, I'm left with about 45 minutes of program. I prefer dubbing only two episodes to DVD-R, meaning that if I used the SP speed, I am left with quite of bit of unused space on the DVD-R. To maximize quality, I set my timer to record Angel plus either a half hour before or after, and I use the FR speed. After editing, I am left with the same 45 minute program length, but now it's been recorded at a higher bit rate. Dubbing two episodes to DVD-R makes maximum use of the available space. Yes, I could have used the XP speed in the first place and dubbed at FR, but that would mean a re-encode and more time.


So that I understand what the E80 is doing here as I'm a little confused --

you are recording two separate 90 min programs (with added time) to the HD in FR speed. That puts the bitrate at say an avg of 6Mbps. After editing, you are still left with two 6Mbps programs that are 45 mins each in length. You HS dub those to disc in FR mode and the disc fills to capacity. If you recorded those 2 programs at SP, the HD would record them at about 4Mbps avg. and after HS dubbing, would take up 3/4 of the disc.

Got it. The only thing I don't understand is why you would add the 1/2 hour at either side of the timer recording. Is it that because you have to sort of trick the player into getting ready for the HS dub by recording the first program at 90 mins in FR (since that is what you wind up with after editing the 2 shows) by swapping in the other editing program for the commercials and junk you edited out of the first program? Hmm. Interesting!

Now maybe you understand why this thing seems quite bizarre at first. You won't learn anything like this in the manual of course. The learning curve on this machine is pretty high compared to most other components I've used. And the fact that the functions are not labeled/named intuitively (at least for me) makes it doubly difficult. I guess once you learn to understand how it does what it does, then you can start to master it!! Thanks for putting me on the path to enlightenment!!!!! Posted Image

Dave

#14 of 15 OFFLINE   alan halvorson

alan halvorson

    Screenwriter



  • 2,021 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 02 1998

Posted April 13 2004 - 09:54 AM

Quote:
Is it that because you have to sort of trick the player into getting ready for the HS dub by recording the first program at 90 mins in FR

That is exactly what I'm doing. It would be very nice if the recorder would allow a choice of quality levels in increments between XP and SP, but it doesn't and so I use this workaround.

I happened to look at an E85 today at Best Buy. On sale for ~$663. 120G hard drive, some kind of programming service, and much faster dubbing speeds (32X, according to a spec the BB employee found). I really like that part, but I don't if it's worth shelling out another $700 a few months after the first time.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa To the funny farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!!!
- Napoleon XIV

#15 of 15 OFFLINE   Brian Co

Brian Co

    Extra



  • 24 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 20 2002

Posted April 16 2004 - 02:26 PM

The E-85 actually has a 4x drive which is identical to the E-100. The main advantage to the newly released E-85 is it now has the ability to dub a finalized DVD-R back to the HDD.
What exactly is rotten in Denmark?


Back to Blu-ray, DVD, LD, Tivo, Satellite and Other Playback Devices



Forum Nav Content I Follow