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Star Trek: The Motion Picture Arrives


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#1 of 69 Mike_G

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Posted November 05 2001 - 05:21 AM

Wow.

Oddly enough, the DVD starts off with the rating and then goes right into the film. The overture starts off with the stars trailing behind you, as if you're looking at them from the back of the ship. Then the new CGI Paramount logo runs, and the new titles - forward moving starfield over gold letters. The names quickly blur out of focus and then into focus for the next name. I'm not sure I understand why this was done since it's so annoying. The credits fade to black and then the movie as we know it starts.

I've only watched a bit of it, but it's a great transfer. The sound is better than expected. I don't have a lot of time with it now, I'll have more to say on it later tonight.

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[Edited last by Mike_G on November 05, 2001 at 12:27 PM]

#2 of 69 Mike_G

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Posted November 05 2001 - 05:53 AM

So, I'm watching it and there are some questionable changes that I don't understand. First, when Epsilon 9 is reading the transmission from the Klingon ship, the computer voice-over is cut, screwing up the music cue. When the transporter accident is over, Kirk's line "Oh my God" was cut. WHY?????????? It's things like that that I hang onto my laserdiscs for. I'm all for changes, but not at the expense of the narrative, or the cutting of what some people may think are "throw away" lines.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#3 of 69 Nelson Au

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Posted November 05 2001 - 06:16 AM

Has anybody seen copies for sale in the San Francisco Bay Area?

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#4 of 69 Dave Scarpa

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Posted November 05 2001 - 06:42 AM

Kirk's "Oh My God" line was so awkwardly delivered in induced laughs from the Audience everytime I've seen it in a Movie theater or even at home for that matter. Wise wanted to tigten up the dialog and film as a whole. this is one line that needed to go and it's in the Deleted scenes anyhow.
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#5 of 69 Lou Sytsma

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Posted November 05 2001 - 07:32 AM

Another example is when the Enterprise exits the wormhole and Chekov says to Decker, "We're out of it." Duh!

Glad this was cut. When I saw it in the theatre and Chekov uttered that line, someone from the back of the theatre yelled out, "So are we!"

The whole theatre broke up and needless to say any mood the picture was trying to make was gone.

Personally I think this edition is great! The movie makes more sense and flows much better.

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#6 of 69 Mike_G

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Posted November 05 2001 - 07:37 AM

Oh, so now we delete entire lines because of how they're delivered? Damn, how about making Star Trek: TMP a special-effects-only narrative then and cut out all the bad acting and dialog altogether?

It seems to me that some of the "suggestions" from the fans over the years were taken a little too seriously. Christ, this revisionist crap is going way too far.

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[Edited last by Mike_G on November 05, 2001 at 02:39 PM]

#7 of 69 Nelson Au

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Posted November 05 2001 - 08:03 AM

I couldn't help but comment on your last post Mike.

I have no doubt in my mind from what I understand of this re-edit is that the changes were made based on Robert Wise's notes and Gene Roddenberry's notes of what they felt the film needed to improve it right after it's 1979 premiere in Washington DC.

I think the faintest suggestion that the fans influenced the re-edit would be the travel pod sequence that circles the Enterprise in dry dock. No one wanted to change that lest the fans would have a cow over that. But even Robert Wise said that he felt that sequence was needed to show how big the Enterprise is then once inside V'Ger, you get a sense of V'Ger's scale.

So my vote is, like it says in the credits, a Robert Wise film.

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#8 of 69 Mike_G

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Posted November 05 2001 - 08:23 AM

I'm not sure I agree with you, Nelson. I was listening to the commentary and there was a statement made by Wise about how out of perspective the E looked when the crew was walking on it at the end of the film. That seems more like a fan-based comment than a technical one, especially after talking about how abstract V'Ger's insides were supposed to look. I don't know. Maybe if Wise's commentary wasn't read from a script (even if he did write it) it would seem more legit.

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#9 of 69 Nelson Au

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Posted November 05 2001 - 08:40 AM

Mike-

Well, I can't comment on that one as I don't have the disc yet. So after Tuesday, or by the weekend, I'll have had time to see it and then listen to the commentary.

I'll keep an open mind when I see it.

Nelson



#10 of 69 Lou Sytsma

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Posted November 05 2001 - 08:41 AM

Mike - are you saying you want to keep bad things in at the expense of improving the movie? This is a special case where Mr. Wise got to revisit the movie and tighten it up. Something he wasn't allow to do originally.

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#11 of 69 Michael Reuben

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Posted November 05 2001 - 08:51 AM

Quote:
Oh, so now we delete entire lines because of how they're delivered?
It happens all the time in the editing room. So what?

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#12 of 69 Richard_Huntington

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Posted November 05 2001 - 09:20 AM

Fact: Wise was not able to finish this film.
Fact: Wise has always wanted to go back and finish it.
Fact: He now has.

I say good for him. HE is the director. Not US. Unless we can prove he is senile, which is impossible, considering how articulate he sounds, even at his advanced age, then we must let the man have his way. Posted Image

P.S. I always found "Oh my God" to be a badly delivered line.
...........

By the way, I am struck by how huge the mat lines around the Klingon ships (and some other objects) are. Gives new meaning to the term edge enhancement. Posted Image I am also surprised at how blury the cloud is. I thought it would look sharper on DVD, as compared to the horrific cropped TV versions.

[Edited last by Richard_Huntington on November 05, 2001 at 04:22 PM]

#13 of 69 Mark Zimmer

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Posted November 05 2001 - 09:32 AM



So, if we're going to cut all lines that Shatner delivers badly, will they remove his credit from the titles?

Yikes, couldn't resist! Seriously, badly delivered lines get cut all the time both before and after previews. I remember little besides the tedium from seeing this back in the day, but I remember that line was a howler.

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#14 of 69 Neil S. Bulk

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Posted November 05 2001 - 09:43 AM

The movie is much better now than what we are used to. I will hold onto my widescreen LD only to directly compare what has been cut.

The whole point of finishing the film was to refine it. That means taking out some of the dialogue. It also means shortening and re-arranging shots. The film is much more engaging now, and you can clearly see that what we had before was a work in progress.

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#15 of 69 Mike_G

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Posted November 05 2001 - 10:47 AM

My God. What a contrast.

E.T. gets altered and everyone's all over it.

Star Trek gets altered and nobody cares.

Someone on the E.T. thread was right - when bad movies are updated nobody says a word. When classics are updated, it's a controversy.

I never had any problems with how "loose" the movie was, short of the V'Ger flyover. I never saw the lines that were cut as "bad", and I'm one of the morons that always defended this movie. I guess I was wrong the whole time. Posted Image

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#16 of 69 Steve Christou

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Posted November 05 2001 - 11:14 AM

I would have been more than happy if the original cinema version of Star Trek TMP was released on DVD, this is the film I've been watching for 20 years, now I have no choice but to accept a 'revised' version of this film on DVD, while its great to finally have this classic Trek on DVD can't we at least have the original 1979 version on this format too?

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#17 of 69 Nelson Au

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Posted November 05 2001 - 12:52 PM

Mike-

You weren't wrong to defend it.

I think a lot of us are excited that in this case, it's a situation where a director wasn't allowed to finish a movie and he now has a chance to refine it. Also, Star Trek is such a dear and loved franchise by so many. This was an orphaned film that didn't get the respect it was due. It was the first and could've been the best one. But circumstances at the time derailed an opportunity to optimize it.

Lucas and Speilberg have the means to do whatever they want. So if they feel like making their movies more PC, they can do it. I don't think Wise had that option, and i suspect he didn't want to revisit the film after it was over. As I understand, it was the DVD restoration producer who convinced Wise to come back and helm it as he saw fit.

Star Trek-TMP is a good cinematic film that deserved the refinement. In this situation, I am happy to see it altered as it was never completed.

Just my 3 cents.

Nelson

[Edited last by Nelson Au on November 05, 2001 at 07:53 PM]

#18 of 69 David Lambert

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Posted November 05 2001 - 01:12 PM

Quote:
Oddly enough, the DVD starts off with the rating ...


Every Paramount DVD has been doing this for months, perhaps even for about a year now. Where you been?

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#19 of 69 Richard_Huntington

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Posted November 05 2001 - 02:07 PM

Quote:
My God. What a contrast. E.T. gets altered and everyone's all over it. Star Trek gets altered and nobody cares. Someone on the E.T. thread was right - when bad movies are updated nobody says a word. When classics are updated, it's a controversy.
Mike, you don't seem to understand that E.T. and ST-TMP are two completely different scenarios. Spielberg had final cut and the film released was his film. Period. His changing it is pure PC crap.

Wise, on the other hand, was simply unable to complete the film on time, despite working 7 days a week on it. He had no preview and the film released was just his rough cut! He has never liked this version. YOU may like it, but you did not direct this film. It is Robert Wise's baby and thanks to the wonders of DVD, he has had the chance to go back and finish the film and I am glad for him. Posted Image

I look at this like BLADERUNNER and HIGHLANDER, two film altered by studios that were later corrected by the directors. TMP might not have been taken away from the director, but they told him he had to have it out on a certain date, finished or not. I am thrilled that Wise didn't drop dead before he got his chance to set thing straight.

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#20 of 69 Blu

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Posted November 05 2001 - 02:20 PM

Orson Welle's Touch of Evil was altered considerably according to Welle's original notes and it is a grand movie. In my opinion the way ET was altered (removing guns for no reason) and the way Star Trek was altered (shatner's bad lines which ranks up there with Generation's Oh My! in his death scene)
are completely different.

But regardless we have little to no say so in how movies are made or altered since we are not the filmmakers. If I had made a film I wasn't happy with but others loved I would alter it how I felt I wanted to convey what it is I wanted to convey to the audience. My film, my product, vote with your dollars.





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