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headaches from DLP?


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#1 of 30 Ray Evans

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Posted March 10 2004 - 10:37 AM

At the moment im hunting around for a projector for my new house that will be ready in 2 months time.
My first choice is the CRT but I think it's just too big for where it's gonna be.
So I had a look at the Sharp XV-Z12000E, I was quite impressed with it but then after awhile i started to have headaches....I need to check it out again to make sure.
If this is the case will all DLP do this to me, and which LCD ones should I look into.
I did have a look at Sanyo, I think it was the PLV Z2 and also was quite impressed with it.
Im new to all this so I would like your advice, Thanks

#2 of 30 Gabriel_Lam

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Posted March 10 2004 - 10:54 AM

Man, if you have headaches with the z12k (with 5x speed 7 section no-clear-section colorwheel), then you'll pretty much have headaches with all single chip DLP's. Posted Image

Did you look at it with some bias lighting? That tends to help a little over just a completely dark room.

You may want to consider LCOS/DILA, if you can get the JVC DLA-HX1 there.
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#3 of 30 NickSo

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Posted March 10 2004 - 11:00 AM

Have you used FP before? it could be just eyestrain due to the overwhelming size of the image...

#4 of 30 ChrisWiggles

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Posted March 10 2004 - 11:23 AM

No, it's the DLP, and some people will get headaches, which will definitely scratch that off as an option. If all it is is seeing rainbows a little bit, perhaps you can get used to it, I see them very severely, even on the sharp 12k, which was a quite unwelcome surprise. A pitch black room will make this worse, unfortunately. A bigger viewing angle will also make it worse since your eyes have farther to move as you look around the screen.

Guy Kuo seems to think that your brain will get used to the rainbow, and/or your viewing patterns will change, as you get accostumed to not moving your eyes around so much when watching.

But I'm not particularly willing to live with a DLP to find out if I can "get used" to seeing rainbows.

#5 of 30 Ray Evans

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Posted March 10 2004 - 11:28 AM

I had a look at CRT Barco Cine 7lt few times now, and no problem at all. If I had the space, I would definately get this.
I do need to try out Sharpo again, just to make sure.

#6 of 30 Allan Jayne

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Posted March 10 2004 - 03:25 PM

I am led to believe that different people may get or not get headaches depending on the refresh speed, which includes the color wheel speed for DLP TV sets. The fact that the RGB color contents are flashed sequentially may also affect some people.

The complaint has been made that yellow on a DLP with color wheel is duller than on a direct view or three panel LCD etc. projector, I think some people see this is true others not.

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#7 of 30 Jeff W.

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Posted March 10 2004 - 04:44 PM

I get seasick after only a few seconds of looking at a DLP set. Posted Image

#8 of 30 Evan M.

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Posted March 11 2004 - 03:08 AM

I know what you mean about the headache thing. I went to a buddies house yesterday to check out his new Benq 6200 yesterday (awsome by the way). While watching a started to get a dull headache which later turned into a big headache. I see rainbows very easily and saw a lot on the Benq (not as much as the x-1 though). I always wanted to go DLP because I think when it really boils down to it I think that the PQ on a DLP is much better than LCD. LCD issues tend to scare me away, such as dead pixels, vertical banding, SD, low contrast ratio and replacing some light filter thing after 1500 hours on top of the normal bulb replacement. I won't be purchasing for a year though so maybe a lot of the issues that I have with DLP and more especialy LCD will be cured. I had my heart on the 4805 now I don't know if I would be able to handle that. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

#9 of 30 Ron-P

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Posted March 11 2004 - 04:08 AM

LCD's have come along way and comments like those that Evan has made could not be further from the truth.

I in-home demoed both the Infocus X1 (dlp) and the Panny 200u (lcd).

The contrast on both was identical with a slight advantage going to the lcd. Using Fellowship of the Ring as my demo disk I found slightly deeper blacks and details within those blacks with the lcd over the dlp. Color rendition on both was nearly identical, vibrant with great flesh tones. The lcd did have a slight green cast in some flesh tone scenes (known fact of lcd). If it is bothersome, a CC05M filter can be added for $15. For myself, it's not enough to even bother with a filter.

As for screen-door, both are identical and both require a slight defocus of the lens to hide it.

I have yet to see any vertical banding on the Panny and I never saw any on the X1 as well.

There is no "light filter" that I know of or that the manuel speaks of that needs replaced. The dust filter should be replaced or at least cleaned every several hundred hours or so. The Panny rates it's bulb life at 5,000 hours in low-lamp mode and 3,000 in normal mode.

LCD has come a long way over the last couple of years and people really need to get out and see one before judging it so harshly. I am so happy with the PQ from my lcd that I'll never consider dlp again. There are others here as well that will testify that lcds are now matching if not succeeding PQ of dlp, as I have found.

Both the X1 and 200u are outstanding machines with nearly identical PQ. Each machine has it's +/- but for the 1k investment, you cannot go wrong either way. I'm willing to bet that within the next couple of years or so we'll see these little digital machines matching the PQ to that of the CRT FP's.


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#10 of 30 David_Jr

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Posted March 11 2004 - 04:32 AM

Ron,
I think it is very insensitive of you to make comments like that about LCD FPs. After seeing several of us post that we have to wait a year or so before being able to buy, posts like yours KILL us!!! You're making it very hard to wait.Posted Image Posted Image
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#11 of 30 Evan M.

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Posted March 11 2004 - 04:47 AM

Ron, I didn't mean to rufle any feathers. All of the info that I got about LCD issues was on this site. It is very difficult for me to see and compare any projectors from where I live. I will say that I have seen a few nice LCD projectors and screen door was quite obviouse. There is also a thread here referring to a Panny l500 review that is talking a lot about the Vertical banding issue. There is a thread here also that is a few weeks old that refers to this thing that needs to be replaced on LCD's after about 2000 or less hours. It has to do with I think the Cyenne (blue) art of the projector. Something about it getting burnt out quickly. It is supposedly a 150$ fix. I am not trying to bash LCD but the only issue I ever hear about DLP is rainbows. I will deinately give LCD's a looksie though when the time comes.

#12 of 30 Ron-P

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Posted March 11 2004 - 05:25 AM

No feathers ruffled at all.

I read a lot of posts hear and elsewhere about how bad the contrast is with LCD. Yes, they used to be very poor, but they have come a very long way and need to be seen again. Every time I see a post about lcd and contrast I try to inject my experience in hopes others will go out and give them a second look.

..and David, I'm not sorry about being insensitive. Posted Image


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#13 of 30 Eric Hahn

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Posted March 11 2004 - 12:45 PM

I have to agree with ron-p I just picked up a used l200u and tonight I compaired it to a benq 6100 my bud just got, first the throw would not work for my room, way to long, even if the l200u has a tad to short a throw.

the pq, to me was a little cleaner on the l200u, I now see what people say when they say filmlike picture on the dlp's.

very nice, just a little different, I do see screen door, on the l200 but I am under 2 times the screen width, I could not get the size of the 6100 that big to compair, so I got closer, still saw the screen door, but not quite as evident, really a non issue for me.

all that said I after watching for 15 minuets have what I will call eye strain, the last time I felt it was after watching a x1 for a wile, I did like the pq on bothe the x1 and the 6100, but I have no effects of watching my l200u, and like the crispness of my pq. I think the black levels are close maby an edge to my l200, but the brightness definatly goes to the 6100, nemo really had some pop on my blackout cloth, again at a lot less size of the screen.

so everyone can have thier own opinion, but the pq is close on the lcd's compaired to the dlp's and the new ones will only get better.

really makes me happy I read ron's post on his 200, I cant believe the deal I got I am now enjoying fp, instead of saving for a new one..
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just my .02 hope it helps.

#14 of 30 cabreau

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Posted March 31 2004 - 04:29 AM

I've compared three LCD projectors against 4 DLP projectors. The DLP's won every time. Even the SVGA X1 toasted the Eiki XGA LCD projector that I had. The only downfall to the DLP's is that some people see rainbows. While rainbows were a HUGE bother to me at first, (HUGE as in headaches and all), they no longer bother me. I think that most people can get used to them.
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#15 of 30 Ron-P

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Posted March 31 2004 - 06:14 AM

Quote:
While rainbows were a HUGE bother to me at first, (HUGE as in headaches and all), they no longer bother me. I think that most people can get used to them.

I have movie nights about once a month for family and friends. I could have possibly gotten used to rainbows over time, but what about everybody else? People that come over and see a DLP FP once a month would never "get used to them" and that would spell disaster for my movie nights. Not worth the risk.
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#16 of 30 Artis Hall

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Posted March 31 2004 - 08:22 AM

I saw the rainbows for the first time sitting too close to my DLP RP watching an action scene in LOTR. Moving the seating position back not only improved my perception of overall PQ (which is great IMHO on this set) but cut out the rainbows because my eyes don't have to go as far as fast across the screen. I can see them intenionally by moving my eyes quickly, and I can never see them by moving them a little slower. I have had it for about 2 weeks and am well within my time to return it but based on PQ, Maintenance, Weight, Size, and Cost I really don't see myself getting rid of it. The HDTV picture is gorgeous and interestingly I don't recall any rainbows on HD stuff. More on DVD if anything but that may be because I own mostly action DVDs with fast moving scenes in them. Just my .02
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#17 of 30 Neil Joseph

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Posted March 31 2004 - 08:44 AM

I will have to echo Gabriel Lam's sentiments here and say that you must be quite sensitive to rainbows if the 12K does affect you.

Hmmm, demo the 12K again to make sure.

I would say that if you still get headaches then go either the LCD or the CRT route (if you can accomodate that). In the future when 3 chip DLP's at full highdef come out, then you can consider a change in projectors at that time if you wish it.
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#18 of 30 Ray Evans

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Posted March 31 2004 - 12:26 PM

Quote:
I would say that if you still get headaches then go either the LCD or the CRT route (if you can accomodate that). In the future when 3 chip DLP's at full highdef come out, then you can consider a change in projectors at that time if you wish it.


im thinking of the same thing. But more I see the Barco Cine 7lt, im falling in love with it. I think I will have to convince my fiancee some how to get the Barco.
Has anybody here have good excuses.Posted Image

#19 of 30 WayneG

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Posted April 01 2004 - 03:52 AM

>I get seasick after only a few seconds of looking at a DLP set

I experience a similar effect watching an LCD computer monitor. Headache, nausea. I'm assuming the same will be true of TV. It looks like it's CRT for me.

#20 of 30 Joseph Bolus

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Posted April 01 2004 - 05:02 AM

Quote:
saw the rainbows for the first time sitting too close to my DLP RP watching an action scene in LOTR. Moving the seating position back not only improved my perception of overall PQ (which is great IMHO on this set) but cut out the rainbows because my eyes don't have to go as far as fast across the screen. I can see them intensionally by moving my eyes quickly, and I can never see them by moving them a little slower.

This echos my experience with my Infocus X1 exactly! (It was even an action scene from LOTR, lol!)

Once I sat back far enough such that I no longer had to move my eyes around to follow the action on my 96" 16:9 screen, I was no longer able to detect the DLP rainbows.

As somebody who has owned both a $2500 LCD projector and the $1000 DLP Infocus X1 projector, I can tell you that I far prefer the overall picture quality of the X1. Even with the best of the new crop of LCD pj's, I can still see occasional "trace lines" that streak across the picture. You never get this effect with DLP based projectors. And, if you are comparing SVGA resolution DLP to SVGA LCD, you will see a much larger "screendoor" effect on the LCD machine. (Since most of the new crop of LCD home projectors have now graduated to WXGA resolution, "screendoor" is probably no longer much of a concern for either type of projector.)

As far as having guests over for "movie nights": So far, none of them have complained about being able to detect the "rainbow effect" of the DLP on my particular setup.

I think the bottom line here is that as long as you purchase a 16:9 WXGA resolution LCD projector, with at least a 1300:1 contrast ratio, you are going to get an excellent overall picture, and without "rainbows".

I, personally, still prefer my SVGA DLP-based X1, with its 2000:1 contrast ratio and Faroudja de-interlacer for s-video sources, and no occasional "trace lines", to the LCD picture; but that's just me!
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