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Dumbo lays an egg.


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#1 of 64 William Miller

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Posted October 24 2001 - 01:00 PM

I guess Disney spent all of their restoration money on Snow White. Dumbo is awful. Excessive grain and a flickering, fluttering picture. And while the new "stereo" soundtrack sounds good, I don't think the original mono soundtrack is on the DVD. Add in the politically correct editing and the opening unwanted trailers and you have a major disappointment.

#2 of 64 Jeffrey Forner

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Posted October 24 2001 - 01:05 PM

Well, I've been teetering between buying and boycotting Dumbo for a while now. On the one hand, I loved watching it as a child, even though the version I knew was the edited version. At the same time, I didn't want to support Disney's decision to change the film in the first place.

If the DVD is as crappy as you say, then perhaps I'll skip over it for those reasons alone. A shame. Dumbo deserved better treatment.


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#3 of 64 DanL

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Posted October 24 2001 - 01:05 PM

I thought it had been established that there was no editing. Can anyone confirm this?
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#4 of 64 george kaplan

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Posted October 24 2001 - 01:37 PM

Quote:
I thought it had been established that there was no editing. Can anyone confirm this?

Here's my take on it as best as I can figure. First of all there appear to be additional scenes of the crows not in the current version. Enough people have seen this (I am not one of them) for me to believe it's real.

Rumor has it (I've heard this from someone I have no reason to doubt, but it is secondhand nonetheless) that Scott MacQueen claims such footage was never in a Dumbo release (he should know).

So, I am forced to conclude one of the following:

1) The Scott MacQueen rumor is false.
2) The Scott MacQueen rumor is true, but he is mistaken or misinformed.
3) The scenes in question were cut before the theatrical release, but some folks have gotten hold of a work print that has them in it.
4) The deleted scenes don't exist, and are an elaborate hoax.

I'm leaning towards 2 or 3, but who knows?

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#5 of 64 Craig Beam

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Posted October 24 2001 - 04:55 PM

I'll go on record as disagreeing with William Miller on this one... I for one am delighted with Disney's presentation of DUMBO on dvd. The image quality, while certainly not up to modern pristine standards, is dramatically better than previous home video incarnations, and the new sound mix expands the sound stage without being cheesy or gimmicky (it's not as if they added new audio elements or anything sacreligious like that!). The "sound design" supplement, in which we are shown how the music and sound effects for Casey Jr. were created, is worth the twenty bucks all by itself. The Canemaker commentary is interesting and insightful too.... all in all, I'm more than pleased.

I will agree that there are WAY too many trailers on this disc... but sheesh, skip 'em!

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#6 of 64 Marty Christion

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Posted October 24 2001 - 05:57 PM

Concerning the reports of the Crow footage, you can still find many people who swear they saw the Biggs footage when they first saw Star Wars in '77. (And then the prints were recalled, and it was cut out, blah blah blah... Posted Image )

And that was only 24 years ago...

If this footage does exist, it wouldn't be very hard for someone to take a few snapshots off their bootleg VHS and create a nice little website detailing these cuts...as has been done for every other edited Disney film to date.

Also, I don't have the DVD, but this page http://www.mouseplan....eMineMusic.htm says the Make Mine Music DVD has a card explaining that it was edited. Considering how well documented the cuts are in this relatively obscure film, I can't believe there is only one mention of Dumbo being edited in all the World Wide Web. And that was an anecdotal report based on a 28+ year old memory.

Why doesn't somebody in Burbank crack open their phone book, get the number for the Disney archives, and call them up and ask them? Or call the studio and get Scott Macqueen's number and call him up to see if he's sure about the crow footage.

#7 of 64 Mitty

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Posted October 24 2001 - 06:03 PM

Why would a mammal lay an egg?

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#8 of 64 Julian Lalor

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Posted October 24 2001 - 08:23 PM

"Why would a mammal lay an egg?"

Perhaps this is the version where Dumbo is a Platypus Posted Image

#9 of 64 Ken_McAlinden

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Posted October 25 2001 - 12:42 AM

Maybe it was actually Horton and he just hatched the egg? BTW, I have no way of knowing about any cut Dumbo scenes since I have seen no other version than the current one, but, for the record, despite the edited for content disclaimers on Saludos Amigos, Melody Time, and Make Mine Music, I do not recall any such disclaimer on the zoomed Fantasia. Maybe there is a 20 year statute of limitations at Disney on disclosing censorship with a title card on video. Posted Image

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#10 of 64 Eugene Hsieh

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Posted October 25 2001 - 02:12 AM

The DVD does have some weird quirks and the image quality isn't the greatest, but I think it's OK. Anyway, I prefer the movie to Snow White. (I like the movie Snow White overall but nowadays I can't help but think Snow White is bimbo. :rolleyes Posted Image

#11 of 64 Scott Strang

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Posted October 25 2001 - 02:45 AM

Julian Lalor said....
Quote:
"Why would a mammal lay an egg?"
Perhaps this is the version where Dumbo is a Platypus

I laughed my as off over that one. Watch out for the barb;I've heard that no pain killer can ease the pain from that venom.


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#12 of 64 Bill Huelbig

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Posted October 25 2001 - 04:49 AM

I believe there were some complaints by an African-American anti-defamation group about the crows in DUMBO back in the late '60s or early '70s, similar to the complaints made to the makers of THE GODFATHER which resulted in the word "Mafia" never being used in that film. But I don't think DUMBO was ever cut because of that.

As for faulty memories, I recently had to pull out my 22-year-old bootleg VHS of STAR WARS to convince a friend that the original 1977 release never had the words "Episode IV A NEW HOPE" in the opening credits.

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#13 of 64 Zack Scott

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Posted October 25 2001 - 06:08 AM

WE gotta remeber that Dumbo is 60 years old. Unfortunately it doesn't look like Disney loves it as much as Snow White.

BUt the thing that I don't like about the disc is the special features. Michael Crawford sining baby mine? A preview for Dumbo 2? A fifteen minute documentary (more of the Disney Co stroking it) on how great Dumbo is and not in Depth on the trials of makng it? The Commentary is okay. At least that I finally have this movie on DVD and din't pay an outrageous price for it.

But going off on a little side note...WHAT'sWITH ALL THESE STUPID SEQUILS. THey prewieved five different sequils on this disc and none of them look up to the challenge of good. Not even All right. CInderella 2? REturn to Neverland? Huntchback 2? We allready talked about Dumbo 2. These are bastardazations of these classic stories.

Oh well, I done

#14 of 64 Ken_McAlinden

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Posted October 25 2001 - 06:21 AM

Quote:
CInderella 2? REturn to Neverland? Huntchback 2? We allready talked about Dumbo 2. These are bastardazations of these classic stories.
I have not seen those titles, only advertisements, so I can't comment. I agree that most of the direct to video sequels I have seen from Disney have been pretty poor (Aladdin, Lion King, Little Mermaid), but I was at least semi-entertained by Lady & the Tramp 2.

On the other hand, Toy Story 2 was pretty good. Disney was also apparently happy enough with how Return to Neverland was developing to promote it to a theatrical feature. Whether that means Toy Story 2 or The Tigger Movie remains to be seen, though. If they put a-list story and animation teams on it, there may be hope.

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#15 of 64 Patrick Larkin

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Posted October 25 2001 - 08:27 AM

I wouldn't call "Toy Story" a Disney product. All they did is market it. Its completely a Pixar product.

#16 of 64 Zack Scott

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Posted October 25 2001 - 08:43 AM

Toy Story 2 Also had potential for a sequil. However Cinderella? Peter Pan? DUMBO????? Check out the previews. Especially Dumbo. Not only does it look like it sucks...I doesn't even go along wwith the story of the first one.

#17 of 64 Rain

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Posted October 25 2001 - 09:00 AM

Here's what I know:

1. Dumbo is my favourite Disney animated feature. No, no, it's my favourite animated feature period.

2. I am confident that it will look better on DVD than it has looked in a long while, though it may not be perfect.

3. Nobody is entirely sure if the movie has really been censored or not. It is starting to sound more and more like an urban legend. (I was also absolutely sure that Episode IV - A New Hope appeared on screen the first time I saw Star Wars...I have "clear" memories of discussing this with a friend as a child and wondering what happened to Episodes I-III...was it added to the first re-release or what?...now I'm not sure I can trust my, or anyone else's, memory....remember Sammy Jankis. Posted Image ) Therefore, I'm not prepared to boycott the film based on the possibility that the film was cut before the first time I ever saw it.

4. I bought Dumbo today (God how I love that little elephant). Tonight's agenda: turn off phone ringer, drink beer, watch Survivor, drink beer, watch Dumbo, drink beer. Posted Image

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[Edited last by Casey Jr. on October 25, 2001 at 04:00 PM]

[Edited last by Rain on October 25, 2001 at 04:04 PM]
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#18 of 64 Robert Spalding

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Posted October 25 2001 - 09:05 AM

it's spelled "sequel".

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#19 of 64 Peter Apruzzese

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Posted October 25 2001 - 09:29 AM

Quote:
3.(I was also absolutely sure that Episode IV - A New Hope appeared on screen the first time I saw Star Wars...I have "clear" memories of discussing this with a friend as a child and wondering what happened to Episodes I-III...was it added to the first re-release or what?...

Off Topic:
You're probably remembering seeing The Empire Strikes Back, in 1980, which opens with "Episode V". Since Star Wars hadn't said "Episode IV" (and didn't until the 1981 reissue), many people were confused.

On-Topic:
Looking forward to Dumbo for myself and my son. I hope one day to see definitive evidence, one way or the other, that it was altered back in the 1960s.
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#20 of 64 Colin Jacobson

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Posted October 25 2001 - 09:35 AM

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Tonight's agenda: turn off phone ringer, drink beer, watch Survivor, drink beer, watch Dumbo, drink beer.

If you get the chance, why not drink some beer?

In regard to the alleged editing, I've been trying to search the Net for any evidence of this, and the "DVD Savant's" claim is the only one I can find. Has anyone else actually stated that they saw the offending footage? I'm getting the feeling this whole debate revolves around a 17-month-old column of his in which he discussed a screening from "around" 1973. As others have noted, memories can be faulty. For years I was convinced I'd seen the Dallas cocoon sequence during the theatrical version of Alien, and others mentioned the many Star Wars confusions.

I'm not saying the footage wasn't cut; with Disney, you always have to be suspicious, and I agree with the "Savant" that those awkward fade-outs make it look like something's been removed. However, I'd like to see further evidence of SOME sort. I'm writing my review of the DVD right now and am trying to offer some sort of statement about this, but the whole thing's very confusing. Considering the high level of attention and documentation given to Disney, I find it hard to imagine these SUBSTANTIAL cuts were made yet only one person has any formal knowledge of them. As has been noted, it's all starting to sound like an urban myth...

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