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Something very strange...(Related to Pan & scan "on the fly")


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10 replies to this topic

#1 of 11 AlbertAgullo

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Posted October 25 2001 - 08:37 PM

Got Truffaut's Jules et Jim Spanish Region 2 this morning and the disk has a strange behaviour:

Let's forget a possible 16/9 mode for 4:3 TV does exist, just for a moment.

If you set the player to "letterbox" (ie you have a 4:3 TV) you get a cropped 1:85 version of the film (The OAR is 2:35).
If you set the player to "Wide"(ie you have a 16:9 TV) you get a correct 2:35 version of the film.

The disk is anamorphic.

It look like some sort of evil pan & scan on the fly.

Anybody seen this sort of behaviour before?

#2 of 11 Michael Dueppen

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Posted October 25 2001 - 09:32 PM

Quote:
Anybody seen this sort of behaviour before?
I personally have never seen something like this before. OTOH I have a 16:9 TV so maybe I had discs that did this but I just didn't realize because I play the discs in anamorphic mode.
"Evil" is the correct word, though Posted Image

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#3 of 11 Patrick Wilmes

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Posted October 25 2001 - 09:41 PM

The curent edition is fine.I'll be saving my money for the Pulp Fiction VS.

#4 of 11 GerardoHP

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Posted October 26 2001 - 04:08 AM

Quote:
Anybody seen this sort of behaviour before?
I have, in one of the trailers for HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE on the DVD by the same name.

BTW, I don't find anything like this "evil" as long as they offer the correct aspect ratio.

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#5 of 11 Vince Maskeeper

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Posted October 26 2001 - 05:15 AM

Odd- what happens when you set your player to 4:3 pan&scan?

Sound like some sort of production error- especially since it sounds, from your post, like the "letterbox" mode is showing the image full resolution with the side chopped. Even if the disc was flagged for pan and scan on the fly- this mode shouldn't happen unless the player is in "pan and scan" 4:3 mode.

You should double check everything- make sure that the anamorphic version is infact displaying correctly on an anmorphic display, and vice versa with the other version on a 4:3.

Quote:
BTW, I don't find anything like this "evil" as long as they offer the correct aspect ratio.

The point he is making is that UNLESS the player is in 16:9 mode, it isn't in the proper aspect ratio. Even with 4:3 set to letterbox, it is doing "pan and scan on the fly"- by blowing up the anamorphic image and cropping the side... basically creating a 1.85:1 image (or there abouts).

-Vince

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[Edited last by Vince Maskeeper on October 26, 2001 at 12:16 PM]
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#6 of 11 cafink

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Posted October 26 2001 - 05:24 AM

quote:
Even if the disc was flagged for pan and scan on the fly- this mode shouldn't happen unless the player is in "pan and scan" 4:3 mode.[/quote]

It's hard to tell from your post whether or not you're aware of this, so I apologize if I'm just repeating something you already know. A 16:9 disc can be authored to do "on-the-fly" pan and scan for all 4:3 televisions, regardless of whether your player is set to "pan and scan" or "letterbox." That is, setting it to "16:9" will give you a proper anamorphic picture, while setting it to "4:3 letterbox" or "4:3 pan and scan" will BOTH give you a cropped picture.

There are many occasions where this is useful. If there is 1.33:1 material on a disc with a widescreen movie, they may encode everything on the disc in the 16:9 for consistency. Since that 1.33:1 piece will be windowboxed, you'd want it cropped, not downconverted. Anchor Bay did this with the documentary on their 'Halloween' DVD.

Another practical application is for menus. Many DVDs have 16:9 menus that are encoded to crop of the sides for 4:3 televisions. 'The Abyss' is a good example of this, though it was a bit silly of them to use 16:9 menus in the first place, since the movie itself isn't 16:9.

That said, it doesn't really explain why anyone would choose to author a DVD such that owners of 4:3 televisions can't watch the movie itself in the proper aspect ratio. Maybe it's just sloppy authoring. Maybe they fear complaints from the "black-bar haters," and don't trust them to have their DVD players set to "4:3 pan and scan" (after all, the feature is rarely used).

[Edited last by Carl Fink on October 26, 2001 at 12:27 PM]
 

 


#7 of 11 Vince Maskeeper

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Posted October 26 2001 - 05:40 AM

Carl,

You're right, I forgot about the ability to do that- so I guess my above post should read to mean "a properly authored disc" would only do it in pan&scan mode.

Man, I forgot all about the ability to do that with 4:3 material... I wish EVERYONE would do that. Simple, makes it so every player- regardless of mode could get full resolution and properly formatted 4:3 images without changing display modes.

Of course it makes too much sense, so the major studios will never go for it.

-Vince

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#8 of 11 cafink

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Posted October 26 2001 - 06:05 AM

Quote:
Simple, makes it so every player- regardless of mode could get full resolution and properly formatted 4:3 images without changing display modes.

Well, you do lose 25% of the resolution. Both 4:3 owners and 16:9 owners will see all of the resolution that's encoded on the disc, but 25% less resolutin will be encoded than would be if it were authored as 4:3 instead of 16:9 (because 25% of the image is used to store the black bars on the side). That said, I personally think the trade-off is worth it, as long as we're talking only about supplemental materials, and not the main feature.
 

 


#9 of 11 Anthony Hom

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Posted October 26 2001 - 06:53 AM

My Pioneer LD/DVD 909 player does this. When I first set it up. It was in fullscreen mode, so all widescreen films almost filled the whole screen, with a little letterboxing. Going into the Players settings and the Widescreen was back to normal. It is full screen, but by no means Pan and Scan. It just shows right down the middle.
To pan and scan is to fish around the wide screen picture to show one person talking if you can't get everyone in the image. I don't think a DVD player can do that independently.

#10 of 11 Vince Maskeeper

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Posted October 26 2001 - 08:21 AM

Quote:
To pan and scan is to fish around the wide screen picture to show one person talking if you can't get everyone in the image. I don't think a DVD player can do that independently.

It can, part of DVD spec to encode flags to move the picture around...

But that's not what is being discussed here. The picture isn't actually moving, but it is clicking to zoom in "pan and scan on the fly" mode.

Vince
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#11 of 11 Jesse Skeen

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Posted October 26 2001 - 09:29 AM

Cropped menu screens are one reason I tell myself I 'need' to get a 16x9 TV- as silly as I think menus are, I'd still like to see all of them.
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