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Will Star Trek get a proper big screen send-off, or did it go out with a whimper?


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#1 of 26 OFFLINE   Nick Graham

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Posted February 10 2004 - 06:43 AM

After watching the new CE of Star Trek VI this weekend, it got me thinking about how sad it is that the Next Generation crew may not get the great send-off the original crew did. Is the future of the series in limbo with the meager box office take of Nemesis and the falling ratings for Enterprise? I really hope that the Next Generation crew gets one last show at the silver screen, preferably with real talent on the OTHER side of the camera this time.

This may draw the ire of some fans, but after looking over my new box set of the original crew CEs, I say say bring in Nicholas Meyer, and leave Berman and Braga at home.

#2 of 26 OFFLINE   ZackR

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Posted February 10 2004 - 07:04 AM

Quote:
This may draw the ire of some fans, but after looking over my new box set of the original crew CEs, I say say bring in Nicholas Meyer, and leave Berman and Braga at home.
I'm with you there. The Next Generation crew was the crew I grew up with. I would love it if they would get the kind of swan song that the original crew got. Yes, I know Kirk was in Generations, but Star Trek 6 was truly their last voyage. An excellent movie and I would love to see the TNG cast get the same thing...Unfortunately, given the current state of Trek, I am not holding my breath.
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#3 of 26 OFFLINE   Dennis Pagoulatos

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Posted February 10 2004 - 07:28 AM

Was Star Trek VI really that good of a film? I think it's the most overrated of the original films by far. They were already far over the hill in the dreadful Part 5, and Part 6 just brought back Meyer who came up with a heavy handed metaphor for the Cold War. Some nice moments, to be sure, but I always thought it was weaker than all of the films before Part 5.

The Next Generation cast are just lacking in charisma for the big screen, with the exception of the stellar Patrick Stewart; that's why they've never been able to really make the jump to the big screen. The discarded TV series plots for their films probably haven't helped things much either!

I could pick 4 episodes from TNG season 4 that best any of the 4 TNG films easily.

New blood is definitely needed, but your guess is as good as mine as to who that might be. A total outsider perhaps?

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#4 of 26 OFFLINE   Greg_S_H

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Posted February 10 2004 - 08:35 AM

I doubt if there'll be another TNG movie, but I also don't see any reason why Star Trek films should cease for all time. Maybe the next one will be ten years from now with a cast and crew we've never even heard of at this point, but the Star Trek concept is bigger than the problems the franchise is having right now. That's why I never get why people say they hope there will never be any more shows or movies. There's still the potential for a great show if the right people are in control.

#5 of 26 OFFLINE   Stephen_L

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Posted February 10 2004 - 08:46 AM

I think that the franchise is suffering from fatigue. When ST:TNG was successful Paramount started flooding the airwaves with more sequels that began to get thin; weaker stories, etc. The franchise should lie fallow for a few years, then create a new series with new characters and good stories and Star Trek will be back.
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#6 of 26 OFFLINE   Mike Williams

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Posted February 10 2004 - 08:50 AM

Leonard Nimoy -- NOT Nick Meyer -- came up with the Cold War allegory. One of the things that made Star Trek VI so outstanding is that it recognized the crew was over the hill, made reference to that fact, and used it in its storyline. There WERE some strange inconsistencies and some things that just didn't make sense (unlocked weapons cabinet in the kitchen, paper charts in the 23rd Century, hardbound books for Klingon translation), but the story itself, the performances, everything made a very fitting send-off for the original crew.

The only thing that irritates me about Meyer is that he understands what makes a good movie very well, but he doesn't fully understand "Star Trek." In his commentary for VI, at the end with Kirk's narration, he said, "Where No Man . . . Where No One Has Gone Before."

Meyer said, It was responding to a politically correct society.It was actually bridging the gap between the original crew and the Next Generation crew, with Kirk "quoting" Picard's show opening narration. It really disturbs me that Nick Meyer didn't know that! Oh, well . . .

Aside from all that, I doubt Next Gen will get another sendoff, since the studio intended for Nemesis to be its "fond farewell" and broke up the crew.

#7 of 26 OFFLINE   Seth--L

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Posted February 10 2004 - 09:33 AM

Was Star Trek VI really that good of a film? I think it's the most overrated of the original films by far. They were already far over the hill in the dreadful Part 5, and Part 6 just brought back Meyer who came up with a heavy handed metaphor for the Cold War.


In my opinion, what's notable about Trek VI is not the Cold War plot, but that the film recognizes Trek's racists attitude towards Klingons. The shows and movies not only treat the Klingons as a stupid type-A race of barbarians, but since Star Fleet looks down on them, so are we the audience supposed to. They're an inferior race in every way that makes the galaxy a more dangerous place because they've obtained warp speed travel.

TNG did a good job evolving Worf's character, but never admitted to the treatment of Klingon's the way Meyer did in Trek VI. And then TNG took the same condescending attitude towards the Ferengi which DS9 went to great lenghts to reverse.
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#8 of 26 OFFLINE   Mikel_Cooperman

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Posted February 10 2004 - 11:06 AM

I think it should definitely be done but without the people in charge of the last two and I think Stewart and Spiner should not be part of the creative process which often puts their interests above everyone elses. Stewart had a say in Insurrection and Spiner in Nemesis and look what happend.
Stewart said he wouldnt do anymore but wave some money in front of him and he may do it.
Spiner? I dont care if he is in it.
If they cant get the whole crew, mix and match from the other crews.

How about a TV Miniseries?

#9 of 26 OFFLINE   JonZ

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Posted February 10 2004 - 11:39 AM

Im one of the few who relly liked Nemesis - except that horrible scene where Troi tracks the Viceroy.

I think we'll see Riker and LaForge again on the big screen.

Paramount said there would definitely be another and I believe Jeri Ryan said she was gonna be in it.

I think theyre gonna take their time and try to come up with something special as another dud will probally kill the franchise beyond repair.

#10 of 26 OFFLINE   Colin Jacobson

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Posted February 10 2004 - 12:06 PM

Quote:
There WERE some strange inconsistencies and some things that just didn't make sense (unlocked weapons cabinet in the kitchen, paper charts in the 23rd Century, hardbound books for Klingon translation),


That's the Nick Meyer influence - he seems to really like those touches, and others such as Kirk's glasses in Wrath. I think he knows they're inconsistent but wants them anyway...
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#11 of 26 OFFLINE   chris winters

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Posted February 10 2004 - 12:31 PM

A letter to start trek executives.

Whats wrong with the star trek movies, is whats wrong with the latest show, and all things star trek in the last few years. They are like moving issues of Maxim. The current folks in charge are under the assumption that whats missing from trek is T&A and not enough action etc...They want more CG aliens, and cooler ships etc...Because 7of9 was a success, they use that is a goal to shoot for. Whats missing from star Trek is deep storylines, and episodes that are story driven, not episodes based solely on cheesey action and pg-13 sex. That's what made the origional and the best of TNG unforgetable, not the T&A and action. Its why you can still enjoy them today. They need to tackle unusual and fantastic elements in there plots. They need to listen to the prologue again, its all right there. Where no-one has gone before, explore new worlds etc...Every character seems cloned from previous successes as if we dont remember the archtypes they now represent. The outcast pinochio, the macho jock, etc...it all feels stale and recycled. So they gloss it up and try to slick up the packaging to compensate. The heart of star trek is in fantasy exploration, a utopian society, and likable, too good to be true, characters that have to contend with remarkable phenomanon. Its about whats behind that rock over there? what was that blue glowing thing floating in front of us? and hey look a clone of einstein kept in a human size test tube, what does it all mean? Then have your cast figure it out, and explain it philisophicly and intelectualy. Of course it all has to still be a bit campy and fun, or the whole thing is pointless. If you arent laughing a tiny bit at an actor in goofy ears pretending to fire a ray gun at a guy in a four armed ape suit, you shouldnt be watching star trek in the first place. Forget obsessedly following the established details of the universe you created, forget xeroxing successful old characters, forget the glossed up maxim packaging and T&A,(ok leave a little T&A in there), forget the bad action, and tell some nice philisophical and psuedo-intelectual plots that end at the 60 minute mark. Add some good cheer and good natured banter, and your done. If you make another movie, for god's sake dont get the bright idea of weighting the plot down and adding emotion by:

A).blowing up the enterprise

B)killing off a beloved character only to bring him/her back in the next installment,

C)or having a before this moment B-character suddenly have to step up and command the enterprise because the main characters are dealing with a side plot.

No matter what your instincts tell you, none of these are a good idea!
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#12 of 26 OFFLINE   Dennis Pagoulatos

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Posted February 10 2004 - 01:34 PM

"Referencing" the fact that they were over the hill doesn't change the fact that they were over the hill. They all seem ridiculous in the final scene when they beam down like an old folks convention and start pointing phasers at people. And Kirk does a Jackie Chan flying dive! Gimme a break. I just met Meyer at one of his talks/ DVD signings in Northern California for the release of Trek VI, and I agree that he really doesn't know a lot about Star Trek outside of the films he was involved in (2, 4, and 6). He even went so far as to say that he's never seen any of the other Star Trek films! So it explains his lack of certain knowledge that most Trek fans take for granted as common knowledge. Posted Image

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#13 of 26 OFFLINE   Roger_R

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Posted February 10 2004 - 02:08 PM

"Meyer said, It was responding to a politically correct society." - That was the reason why they changed it for TNG in the first place.

What irritated me when watching Nemesis is that they didn't bring Spock back. In the series we could see Spock starting to try to unite Romulus and Vulcan, but we never got an end to that storyline. If they're going to make another TNG-movie they should end that storyline. Have a movie about Spock taking advantage of the chaos on Romulus after that Picard-clone died and try to stage a negotiation with Vulcan. I think finally uniting Vulcan and Romulus would be a fitting end for both TNG and Spock.
They should also do it over two movies because ending it on 12 is cooler than ending it on 11 Posted Image

#14 of 26 OFFLINE   Sean Laughter

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Posted February 10 2004 - 02:55 PM

I hate how people rag on Meyer about not being extensively familiar with Star Trek, but don't realize that that extensive familiarity is what has caused the current decline because of Berman & Braga's extensive familiarity and desperation to hold onto their jobs.

It's not as if Star Trek is some hardcore science fiction work. It's space opera and what's mainly important to it is the story being told at the time. Of course, continuity needs to be maintained, but B&B are doing a more bang up job of crapping on continuity with Enterprise than anyone in the TOS movies did.

About the "real books" as they're trying to translate Klingon. I have no problem with that. Aside from being a nice "humanistic" touch, I think it's necessary simply from a film-making standpoint. If the shot was just a bunch of people hunched over pads pushing buttons or staring at the monitors without the frantic tossing of the books the scene wouldn't have worked nearly as well as it did, nor would it have been as easy for the audience to realize what they were doing until Uhura actually started trying to speak broken Klingon. Immediately when the shot starts you know what they're doing because they're going through books. If they were staring at the monitors who knows what the hell they could be looking at?

If the big boot finally does fall on Berman (and hopefully by association Braga) over Enterprise, hopefully they'll bring in some new people for the film franchise too. A mixed cast show would be cool, and frankly I've had quite enough of Picard and Data. The fact that they both stuck their meddling hands into the initial creative process of the last two films didn't help (heaven help us if Stewart ever gets the urge to "help" with any of the X-Men movies Posted Image ). I'll gladly take their absence to get some time with the other characters that have been neglected, particularly Crusher.

Quote:
What irritated me when watching Nemesis is that they didn't bring Spock back.

I'm not even sure if Nimoy would have come back, but if he would have a whole Spock and Sela storyline would have been really nice. I have no idea if Denise Crosby has the chops to pull off an uber-bitch Romulan, but if so I think I'd have found that far more engaging than a clone that looks nothing like his DNA source. As far as I remember Sela didn't do much but stand around doing speeches in the TNG episodes she was involved in, but giving her some command of an actual vessel could have been nice.

#15 of 26 OFFLINE   Greg_S_H

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Posted February 10 2004 - 03:26 PM

Berman once said there wouldn't be a DS9 movie because "nobody wanted to see Captain Sisko on the big screen." He may have a point--I don't think DS9 or its characters are known by the average man on the street, like Kirk and Spock are (but, are the TNG characters?). But, if he is out of the Star Trek family soon, maybe we could get a DS9 movie. It's not very likely, but the chances would increase with him gone.

#16 of 26 OFFLINE   David C Lin

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Posted February 10 2004 - 03:57 PM

I would like to see another Star Trek movie. I know Nemesis didn't do very well at the boxoffice. But if they can come up with a good story and have a good writer before doing the movie, I think they can have another good Star Trek movie.
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#17 of 26 OFFLINE   Josh Simpson

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Posted February 10 2004 - 05:22 PM

There will be another... we all know that. Whether it will be good or not, who knows. But I don't see Paramount leaving the series in this state.

#18 of 26 OFFLINE   Pete-D

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Posted February 10 2004 - 09:16 PM

The Next Generation sure as hell deserves a proper film send-off.

I don't buy that the current crew doesn't make for a good feature film.

And I love Star Trek VI (great score and cinematography too IMO). It's right up there with Star Trek II IMO. The look on Bones' face when the changling "girl" comes to Kirk's bunk still kills me every time.

Get this done Paramount. There shouldn't be any excuses -- make it happen. It would be an absolute shameful black mark on the franchise forever if "Nemesis" was the last TNG film.

The original crew got six shots at feature films, at least give the TNG guys a fifth crack at it.

#19 of 26 OFFLINE   Kevin Grey

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Posted February 10 2004 - 11:52 PM

I've always enjoyed Star Trek VI but felt it was hampered a bit by its low budget (~$30 million if I remember correctly). Not Meyer's fault of course- the lower budget was due to disappointing returns from Part V. Still, the whole thing felt a bit cheap and I thought most of the ideas behind it were better than the execution. Haven't watched the recent DVD release yet though, so maybe it will change my opinion.

#20 of 26 OFFLINE   RickER

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Posted February 11 2004 - 01:41 AM

Yea, as much as i wanted to like 6, and it is better than 5 by a mile. I still couldnt get past the use of the Next Generation sets, the comedy (that doesnt work), the use of our stars just to give them something to do ( why was McCoy in the torpedo bay with Spock when they have a crew of over 400?). And i second the already mentioned phasers in the galley, and battle plans written on paper with magic markers ( 1950's boardroom meeting?)If you like the movie, i am happy for ya, shoot i hear of people that like Enterprise. Havre Bennett was'nt a fan boy, but he sure understood what made Trek work. Until the ego's got in the way, and maybe that is Trek's failing...ego.





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