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Calibration Recommendation?


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21 replies to this topic

#1 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 09 2004 - 12:33 PM

I have a 65" Mitsu widescreen I've had for about a year. I was holding off on calibrating it due to a planned move that kept getting put off. I just moved, so I figure it's about time to do it.

Do I need ISF, or will the Avia or Video Essentials do well enough? I know Mitsu's are affected by red push, and surely, when watching on the S-Video inputs (Dish/DirecTivo), actors have that sunburnt look on occasion, but not enough to bother me TOO severely.

Is this something that I can correct on my own with either of the aboce disks, or do I really need to cough up for full ISF calibration? Is one of the two major disks I see referred to any better than the other? (Note: tech speak does not bother me in the slightest)

If I do need ISF, any good choices you can recommend in the Studio City (So. California) area?

Thanks!

-Kalani

#2 of 22 OFFLINE   Anthony_J

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Posted February 10 2004 - 04:36 AM

I think you'll note that around this forum, full ISF calibrations are always recommended for those well-versed enough in the hobby to appreciate the difference in PQ. They're well worth the money and beyond anything you could do with Avia or VE. Don't think of it as coughing up, think of it as treating yourself to a $300 valentine's day present.

On the other hand, if you're currently living with color that's way off and don't feel the need to rip out your hair or start smoking crack, you might not think the benefits are worth the money.

If interested, do a search on ISF or something simliar, you'll see threads about active regional ISF tours - or contact your local dealer to see if they recommend anyone. Whoever it is, make sure they're certified, will do the calibration with professional instrumentation, etc. You don't want to pay a lot of money to a Circuit City employee who's just going to tweak the user menu for you.

#3 of 22 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted February 10 2004 - 05:35 AM

Start with a calibration disc. This, IMO, will make the largest improvement over factory defauls. A good ISFer can go beyond this, but if you only know the crappiness that is an uncalibrated display, IMO AVia/VE basic calibration is s huge improvement, and it's a lot cheaper than ISF. Later on, you may certainly find the need to get your set ISFed to get the best possible picture.

#4 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 10 2004 - 05:56 AM

Considering I've lived with the factory defaults this long and haven't shot myself, it sounds like I can hold off on ISF for now, at least until after I've finished paying for my move. *g* I want full ISF eventually, but I'll console myself with a good disk-based calibration instead.

Which calibration disk is best? I know Avia is basically the reference standard, but it's also a bit long in the tooth, and I've heard the newer ones are good as well... not to mention half the price! Any thoughts on which of the three that I found at Amazon is best?

Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-Up (2001) (about $20)

Digital Video Essentials (2003) - $18.74

AVIA Guide to Home Theater (1999) - $37.46

Thanks again!

-Kalani

#5 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 10 2004 - 06:00 AM

Oh! I forgot... not 100% in line with the topic, although not entirely off... do the calibration disks FIX the Mitsu red puch problem or just help out a bit? I seem to recall reading a long time ago that the only fix was to literally add a resistor to the line, or something like that, to lower the red voltage. I can't recall exactly, but I seem to recall it was a physical fix of some sort that was way beyond calibration or the service menu. Is this still the case, or did someone figure out a non-invasive, non-hardware-based method of fixing the red push on these Mitsubishis? (Which is FANTASTIC aside from this issue...)

-Kalani

#6 of 22 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted February 10 2004 - 07:39 AM

Greetings

Calibration discs are passive ... they don't fix anything for you. It's what you do with the test patterns they provide that fixes anything.

Regards
Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor/ISF Instructor
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#7 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 10 2004 - 07:51 AM

I understand that the calibration disks are passive. My question was whether or not stepping through the calibration disk, using solely user-accessable menus and controls, can fix the Mitsubishi red push issue, or whether or not it is a hardware-level fix.

#8 of 22 OFFLINE   scot_salmon

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Posted February 10 2004 - 08:56 AM

Only the newest Mits. sets have color decoder adjustments in the user menus. Some of the older sets have color decoder adjustments in the service menu and some don't. If your set does, you'll have to access the service menu to be able to use them. If it doesn't, you'll be relegated to using an attenuator or having a calibrator fix the red push via the I2C interface.

If you post your model number I can tell you if your set has the adjustments in service or not.

Best regards,

Scot

#9 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 10 2004 - 09:06 AM

Thanks, Scot!

I have the Mitsubishi Gold Plus Series WS-65411.

I gather if the settings cannot be changed in the menus, ONLY an ISF calibration can fix the issue?

-Kalani

#10 of 22 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted February 10 2004 - 09:08 AM

Greetings

All you need is a smpte colour bar pattern to do colour decoder things ... where applicable.

The disc won't magically open up access to service menu parameters to fix things like this. It is a test disc ... and not a service manual for all TV's everywhere.

If you can access the service menu, the parameters are in there that you can easily change yourself. You don't need an ISF guy for this.

Regards
Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor/ISF Instructor
Lion A/V Consultants Network - TLVEXP.com


#11 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 10 2004 - 09:19 AM

I'm assuming I can find a guide to getting into the service menu somewhere online (although if anyone has links handy, it'd save me a search!).

I intend to get a calibration DVD and run through the tests. (Anyone have any opinion as to which calib. disk is best, as I asked above?)

The issue, as I understand it, is that certain models of Mitsu big screens, my own included, I think, can have the red push fixed only by use of "an attenuator or having a calibrator fix the red push via the I2C interface" (as confirmed by Scot, above. What I don't know for certain is whether my TV falls into this category or not.

#12 of 22 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted February 10 2004 - 09:24 AM

Greetings

I believe your unit is new enough that the interface is not needed.

The parameters are called ryr ... byr ... near the end of the 70 items found in the service menu. Must be done twice ... once for SD and once for HD.

Regards
Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor/ISF Instructor
Lion A/V Consultants Network - TLVEXP.com


#13 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 10 2004 - 09:32 AM

That's great! I'm going to have to print this out and take it home with me. Thanks so much for the info. Posted Image

You don't happen to have the sequences needed to get into that menu, do you, or perhaps a link?

No biggie if not. You've been a great help regardless!

-Kalani

#14 of 22 OFFLINE   scot_salmon

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Posted February 10 2004 - 09:56 AM

I'm sorry to report that this model has the color decoder adjustment locked out. The only way to control red push is via an attenuator or an I2C fix (reflash the eeprom).

There have been people that have purchased an I2C cable and downloaded the free software to fix the issue themselves. However, unless you are proficient in opening up the set and hooking into the circuit board, you might well want to have an experienced calibrator do the fix for you.

Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Best regards,

Scot

#15 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 10 2004 - 10:11 AM

Posted Image

I was afraid of that. Ok. So where can I find a list of ISF folks in my area? (Studio City, CA (near L.A.) Or are you or Michael TLV making a trip out to see the stars in Hollywood any time soon? :wink:

Edit: Nevermind, found the Imaging Science page. grr. When do I get to post a link somewhere without getting blocked?

-K

#16 of 22 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted February 10 2004 - 10:32 AM

"ISF" calibration is not a god-like, universal calibration. There are many VERY good and well-versed calibrators out there who will fix the red push problem with attenuation. Others, well, may not. Make sure that your ISF guy knows about the problem and how to fix it adequately with decoder adjustments or attenuation if necessary. I would discuss this with him before you have him come out, as some people are just in-house HT guys that went through the training, and do grayscale adjustments, etc, and may not know your particular set, or go so far as to correct red push as noted.

The quality of the work and knowledge of the individual is paramount over the "ISF" label. While pretty much every real calibrator worth his grain of salt is going to be ISF certified, there is variation amongst them certainly. Furthermore, in some special situations with particular products, the best calibrator/setup man there is may not be ISF certified at all. However, intimite knowledge with a particular brand/set may be far more important in some of these cases than having gotten the ISF training to do quality grayscale calibration, etc.

Hope that helps!

I would certainly start with Avia/DVE calibration first, and judge from there whether you feel further improvement is worth it for *you*. You can also use the test patterns, and your viewing to judge whether red push is an objectionable problem. Lowering color saturation, while it does NOT solve red push, sometimes can make it more "acceptable". These are things you can try. Best of luck! Posted Image

#17 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 10 2004 - 10:40 AM

I was contacted directly by an ISF calibrator in my area who was apparently reading this thread. Posted Image I'll talk to him and make my decision.

First, however, and before I spend any money (aside from picking up DVE), I realized the set is under an extended warranty from Good Guys. I suddenly recalled the advice of the salesman, who said I should wait six months or so and then make a warranty repair call (at my house) complaining of the picture quality, and let them come out and work on it. Who knows, maybe they'll send someone who can do a decent calibration under warranty. :wink:

And if not... *shrug*. It can't hurt, and I'll run through the DVE disk, at least. Then I'll save my pennies for a good ISF job.

Thanks again!

-K

#18 of 22 OFFLINE   scot_salmon

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Posted February 10 2004 - 11:10 AM

First of all, I wouldn't let anybody do an attenuator if an I2C fix is available to you. The attenuator fix is only good via component input and is at best a "band aid" type of fix.

The I2C fix lets you actually align the color decoder so that it is correct for red, green and blue. There should be a calibrator in your area that has the I2C capability. If not, I'd hold out for a touring calibrator and have him do the job.

As for warranty, they're likely to say that it's within spec. Remember, Mitsubishi is the one who set it up that way to start out with! Even if they recognize the problem, I doubt they will be equipped with an I2C cable and/or the expertise to fix it.

Just my $.02.

Scot

#19 of 22 OFFLINE   KalaniP

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Posted February 10 2004 - 11:39 AM

Duly noted. Your assistance has been beyond merely helpful.

*off to pick up my copy of DVE*

-K

#20 of 22 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted February 10 2004 - 02:09 PM

Hi guys

on the xxx11 mits:
the xx311 and 411 need the I2c interface to correct the color decoder. It is a simple 1 digit change for ntsc, 480p and 1080i. the interface does not work for the 42" version. for the 42" version you will need an attenuator. remember that if you attenuate the red signal you are also attenuating one half of the green signal at the same time (meaning this is not a great solution).
on the higher 11 series full color decoder settings are available in the service menu.

on the xxx13 mits (the current model year), all color decoder settings can be adjusted in the user menu.

Please note that for the set to perform with a color accurate image you also have to set the gray scale.

On a side note: I provide regular service to Southern California (LA to San Diego). My next trip will be in late April - early May. Please feel free to email me with any questions or concerns you may have relating to calibration services.

Happy viewing!!

Gregg Loewen
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