Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo

What are all the different types of filming used?


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 of 10 OFFLINE   JJR512

JJR512

    Supporting Actor



  • 619 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 11 1999

Posted October 17 2001 - 03:45 PM

I've recently seen references to things like Super 35, scope, open matte, and other stuff, and I realized that I don't know what many of these things are.

Mainly, what is open matte?

------------------
-Justin "JJR512" Rebbert
Posted Image
Join our Genome@home Team! (Click here for more info.)
Contact me: webmaster@jjr512.com | ICQ: 52675695 | Private Message
-Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert
No matter how fast light travels, it always arrives to find the darkness already there, waiting for it.

#2 of 10 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

Jeff Kleist

    Executive Producer



  • 11,286 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 04 1999

Posted October 17 2001 - 03:55 PM

When they shoot a film on plain 35mm stock, you get a frame roughly the shape of your TV. The director then decides what part of this frame he wants to be seen theatrically. When they transfer to video, they take away the "mattes" that prevent the wrong part of the film from being shown
Movies with the 1.85:1 ratio are the most frequent to use this process, except for....


...Super35 which is an evil process where they shoot the full frame, and then matte off a 2.35:1 area of the film (sort of like watching it letterboxed on your TV) this area is then blown up and anamorphically squished(see scope) to be presented on the movie screen. Along with the picture, the grain is also blown up leading to a degredation of the theatrical exhibition, frequently exhaggerated by the poor quality of many theaters. (Recent examples, Gladiator, Matrix, Fight Club, try watching those in most theaters, the grain is almost unbearable except in the most modern places)

Scope (short for CinemaScope) is a process for capturing a 2.35:1 film on a full 35mm frame. Since the picture is wider than the film will allow, lenses are used to squish the image horizontally onto the frame. This is basically the same technique used for anamorphic DVDs. A lens in the theater "unsquishes" the image when it's projected. Scope provides the highest resolution 35mm aquisition, and looks stunning! (Star Wars, Indiana Jones,Mummy Returns, The Score).

#3 of 10 OFFLINE   John Stone

John Stone

    Supporting Actor



  • 683 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 05 2001

Posted October 17 2001 - 04:00 PM

The Digital Bits has some aspect ratio information pages that should answer your questions.

I also have a simple page on my site with some comparison screenshots from various films. I've tried to include examples of most commonly used cinematic processes.


------------------
John
http://www.twowiresthin.com


#4 of 10 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

Michael Reuben

    Studio Mogul



  • 21,769 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 12 1998

Posted October 18 2001 - 12:35 AM

Quote:
Super35 which is an evil process
Posted Image

Jeff is well-known (and by some of us, much-beloved Posted Image) for his passionate if misguided opposition to Super35. If you want a detailed explanation of the process without condemnatory rhetoric, check out the supplements on the Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition disc.

There's nothing wrong with the format. If there were, you wouldn't see it being used consistently by such technical virtuosos as James Cameron, David Fincher and Martin Scorsese. Like anything else, it has its pros and cons. (Even Jeff's beloved scope has its drawbacks, about which Cameron has been particularly outspoken.)

M.
COMPLETE list of my disc reviews.       HTF Rules / 200920102011 Film Lists

#5 of 10 OFFLINE   Ugo Scarlata

Ugo Scarlata

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 113 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 01 2000

Posted October 18 2001 - 01:10 PM

quote:
Super35 which is an evil process[/quote] Posted Image Posted Image
You definitely need to read up on basic cinematography before posting such statements... Relying solely on home video magazines and web sites is not a very good way to learn about cinematography!

Contrary to what you might have heard, most DP's who choose to shoot for Super 35 are not doing so with a home video release in mind.

There are much more important reasons for which a DP will choose Super 35. One of them is the use of spherical lenses, which produce a far sharper and less distorted picture in many situations.

It is true that you get more grain when optically blowing up Super 35 to create anamorphic prints... But the spherical lenses can achieve a higher depth of field at lower light levels to begin with -- without having to use faster (and therefore grainier) film stock!

Not to mention that quite a few DP's simply do not like working with anamorphic lenses in general... To put this in Home Theater terms, you could compare the arguments between Spherical and Anamorphic supporters to the DD vs. DTS debate. Posted Image

Cheers,
------------------
[ My DVDs | phpDVD | My HT | Homepage ]

http://ugo.scarlata....ain/htf/pix.tux

[Edited last by Ugo Scarlata on October 18, 2001 at 09:22 PM]

#6 of 10 OFFLINE   Scott H

Scott H

    Supporting Actor



  • 693 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 09 2000

Posted October 18 2001 - 07:14 PM

I just wanted to commend you guys for your corrective responses to Jeff's erroneous comments about Super35. It should also be noted, I suppose, that his description of regular 35 is in error as well... 99.99% of the time the film is composed for the intended AR during filming. The director does not later decide what the framing is. In post the project is framed in accordance with the framing leader that was actually filmed before production commenced. And the removal of mattes for video release would be indicative of open-matte, which he did not specify. His comments on scope are erroneous as well, as it does not utilize the full 35mm film like Super35 can, but the conventional 35mm sound frame by horizontally compressing the image at a ratio of 2:1 via anamorphic lenses to achieve the wider ARs. Scope does not necessarily provide the highest resolution 35mm film, a vague and indefensible claim anyway (for instance, shooting near full camera aperture 1.33:1 Super35 on slow Vision stock with Panavision Primo prime lenses for direct telecine could likely achieve the sharpest image possible from 35mm film stock, as you are utilizing more negative area than any other conventional 35mm cinematography method).

Submitted respectfully, of course.

------------------
My DVD Library
Runaway production? No thanks. Where I've filmed, benefiting local economies: AL, CA, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, MN, MO, MT, NV, OH, OR, TX, WA, WY.

we quote each other only when we're wrong
Uncle Tupelo

#7 of 10 OFFLINE   JJR512

JJR512

    Supporting Actor



  • 619 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 11 1999

Posted October 18 2001 - 07:22 PM

Let me see if I understand open matte now. A full frame (about 4:3 AR) is shot during production, however the shoot is framed in the camera viewfinder (or whatever it's called technically in the industry) with the intention of being put in theaters in normal WS ratio. To make it look WS, mattes are added to the top and bottom of the frame during post production, basically cutting off the top and bottom. Now when this movie is released to video, the originals are used but without the mattes, so the full frame goes onto video. You see on your 4:3 TV a full frame image, but with more info at the top and bottom than you were meant to see. Is that more or less correct?

One other question: How much, if at all, is 70mm film used anymore?

------------------
-Justin "JJR512" Rebbert
Posted Image
Join the JJR512.com Genome@home Team and help cure what ails you. (Click here for more info.)
Contact me: webmaster@jjr512.com | ICQ: 52675695 | Private Message
-Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert
No matter how fast light travels, it always arrives to find the darkness already there, waiting for it.

#8 of 10 OFFLINE   Scott_MacD

Scott_MacD

    Supporting Actor



  • 760 posts
  • Join Date: May 13 2001

Posted October 18 2001 - 11:19 PM

Quote:
A full frame (about 4:3 AR) is shot during production, however the shoot is framed in the camera viewfinder (or whatever it's called technically in the industry) with the intention of being put in theaters in normal WS ratio. To make it look WS, mattes are added to the top and bottom of the frame during post production, basically cutting off the top and bottom.

Yes, and no.. Posted Image There are no straight answers in the world of fitting a movie to a television.

Sometimes a director or director of photography(DP) will shoot his film open-matte, which is the process that you described. This allows the telecine operator the facility of selecting an area of the print to crop to 4:3 home video. These areas that are matted off in projection, can often have boom mikes, cables or John Cleese's boxers in A Fish Called Wanda in that area. Other directors choose to hard-matte the AR in camera, which provides a precise image for home video and forces the telecine operator to pan and scan the image. (Evil, evil process.. worse than Super35, Jeff. Posted Image )

There's a good site about the transfer of film to tape and I recommend that you read it.
http://www.cs.tut.fi...Ld/FilmToVideo/

Regards.

#9 of 10 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

Michael Reuben

    Studio Mogul



  • 21,769 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 12 1998

Posted October 19 2001 - 01:12 AM

Just to add to Scott_MacD's point:

Nearly all special effects shots are hard-matted and must be panned and scanned. A good example is Death Becomes Her. If you compare the 4:3 version to the widescreen (which, at the moment, is only available on laserdisc), you'll see that the 4:3 version has more image at the top and bottom on shots that are strictly live action. The minute you get an effects shot (which is much of the last half of the picture), the 4:3 version shows noticeable cropping at the sides.

M.
COMPLETE list of my disc reviews.       HTF Rules / 200920102011 Film Lists

#10 of 10 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

Robert Harris

    Archivist



  • 7,597 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 08 1999
  • Real Name:Robert Harris

Posted October 19 2001 - 01:21 AM

A visit to:
www.widescreenmuseum would seem to be in order here.

Suggest you pack light, wear comfortable shoes, and please
give my regards to the usherettes.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Forum Nav Content I Follow