Jump to content



Sign up for a free account!

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests to win things like this Logitech Harmony Ultimate Remote and you won't get the popup ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo

Transfer problems with Bergman Boxset causes MGM to delay Release!


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
110 replies to this topic

#1 of 111 Gary Tooze

Gary Tooze

    Producer

  • 3,060 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 2000

Posted February 01 2004 - 12:35 AM

This deserves a second post:

In the forthcoming Bergman MGM Boxset - we showed recently that they have either zoomed in or cropped away about 11.5% from their Persona DVD presentation.

Unfortunately the news is getting even worse. MGM have taken 2 other films from the Boxset - Hour of the Wolf and Shame and cropped them from their original 1.37 ratio to 1.66 making them widescreen... when they are not widescreen films. The original theatrical presentation was NOT Open-matte - these films were made at 1.37:1.

This is how the film should look (taken from French DVD):

Posted Image

This is how MGM is presenting them to Region 1:

Posted Image

Continuously in the film, people's heads are chopped off the top of the screen. An example from Shame is below.

Posted Image


Last time I saw someone frame a picture like this, it was my uncle Des at the family Christmas get-together.

Both DVDBeaver and Masters of Cinema are encouraging individuals, who still can, to cancel their pre-orders.

More of this information is being documented here:
http://www.new.dvdbeaver.com/

Regards,


#2 of 111 Paul_Scott

Paul_Scott

    Lead Actor

  • 6,546 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 18 2002

Posted February 01 2004 - 01:41 AM

its MGM.
they've been screwing up great films since 1999.

a real shame as otherwise the transfer appears to be pretty nice otherwise (according to your screenshot)

#3 of 111 Thomas T

Thomas T

    Screenwriter

  • 2,066 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 30 2001

Posted February 01 2004 - 03:52 AM

Welcome to the future!

It was only a matter of time for Academy ratio films to be cropped or matted for the wide screen TV crowd. Well, at least they didn't redo the mono soundtrack for 5.1 surround sound.

Still, it's curious that MGM releases a P&S release of a wide screen Panavision film like Summer Lovers yet mats a 1.37 film for wide screen. Go figure.

#4 of 111 Marc Colella

Marc Colella

    Screenwriter

  • 2,607 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 19 1999

Posted February 01 2004 - 04:04 AM

And the poor treatment of foreign films on DVD continues.

So far in 2004, I've cancelled my Bergman boxset and Cyrano de Bergerac orders.

Way to go MGM!! Keep it up, and I'll save a buttload of money... or just give my business to other studios.

You suck!

ADD:

Let's hope they do the right thing and license out Fanny & Alexander to Criterion.

#5 of 111 Michael Reuben

Michael Reuben

    Studio Mogul

  • 21,769 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 12 1998

Posted February 01 2004 - 04:06 AM

Quote:
It was only a matter of time for Academy ratio films to be cropped or matted for the wide screen TV crowd.

Whatever the reason for MGM's handling of these films, it clearly wasn't done "for the widescreen TV crowd". If that were the case:
  • Persona would also have been matted for widescreen, whereas the problem Gary has identified is a zoom on the 1.33:1 image;
  • The other films would have been matted to 1.78:1 (instead they're 1.66:1); and
  • The matted films would have been enhanced for widescreen TVs (they're not).
M.
COMPLETE list of my disc reviews.       HTF Rules / 200920102011 Film Lists

#6 of 111 Sebastian_A

Sebastian_A

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 137 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 18 2001

Posted February 01 2004 - 04:14 AM

Argh, not AGAIN!

I will call these people - what's the number?

I am seriously PISSED about this!

S

#7 of 111 WillardK

WillardK

    Second Unit

  • 318 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 25 2003

Posted February 01 2004 - 04:32 AM

Thanks for yet another useful tip, Gary. This stinks.
"I've got my history of weapons program activity intentions aimed at YOU!"

#8 of 111 Haggai

Haggai

    Producer

  • 3,883 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 03 2003

Posted February 01 2004 - 04:33 AM

Michael's points make a lot of sense, so does anyone have any idea why MGM would have done this?

#9 of 111 Gordon McMurphy

Gordon McMurphy

    Producer

  • 3,530 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2002

Posted February 01 2004 - 06:10 AM

The screenshot from Shame is very poor. I am now 100% convinced that it was composed in 1.37:1 and was not supposed to be matted to ANY other ratio.

I'm going to cancel my order now. I bet $50 that MGM does absolutely nothing about this error.


#10 of 111 David_Blackwell

David_Blackwell

    Screenwriter

  • 1,435 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 30 2004

Posted February 01 2004 - 06:21 AM

Crazy framing of a movie image. Not good.

Be Seeing You,
David Blackwell
ENTERLINE MEDIA (entertainment articles and DVD/Movie/TV show reviews)

#11 of 111 Thomas Koeberl

Thomas Koeberl

    Agent

  • 25 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 14 2002

Posted February 01 2004 - 06:26 AM

Camille Claudel is another example, where MGM has partly cropped the picture. Here is a comparison between the German Arthaus transfer (16/9) and the MGM version (non anamorphic and watch the framing of the first screenshot)

http://www.mwehr.de/...audel/index.htm

#12 of 111 Gordon McMurphy

Gordon McMurphy

    Producer

  • 3,530 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2002

Posted February 01 2004 - 07:27 AM

Damn, the German Arthaus edition of Camille Claudel doesn't have English subtitles! No! Posted Image

This is one of the most beautiful films ever shot and I NEED a DVD edition with a transfer as good as the German Arthaus edition - but with subtitles.

Life's can be a real bitch sometimes!
#

EDIT: Does the French edition have subs: http://www.amazon.fr....183435-7095452

#13 of 111 ShaunS

ShaunS

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 163 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 16 2002

Posted February 01 2004 - 11:04 AM

Add me to the list of those canceling their pre-orders on this (not that anyone is actually keeping such a list). I think this thread should really be kept at the top of this HTF forum. Yes, this is THAT imporant (I think). If enough people were to cancel their orders.... who knows? It probably is too late at this point.

I've never been one for online petitions or even complaining to companies through email, but in this case I think I might actually consider doing the latter. Any suggestions on where at MGM I should send a short email?

ShaunS

#14 of 111 Jerry Gerber

Jerry Gerber

    Extra

  • 17 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 09 2003

Posted February 01 2004 - 04:45 PM

I cancelled my order

#15 of 111 Drew Reiber

Drew Reiber

    Supporting Actor

  • 534 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 10 2000

Posted February 01 2004 - 04:53 PM

Wow, how sad. This set was on my "to buy eventually list". Not anymore....

The worst part is how many fantastic foreign films these idiots have released that harder working folks like Criterion would have loved to give a better treatment, and paid MGM to license it....

#16 of 111 Gordon McMurphy

Gordon McMurphy

    Producer

  • 3,530 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2002

Posted February 01 2004 - 11:15 PM

Guess what - my order has already shipped! Posted Image

Someone at MGM is gonna die...


#17 of 111 Dorian Gray

Dorian Gray

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 63 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 18 2004

Posted February 01 2004 - 11:38 PM

According to dvdfr.com database, the French R2 release of Camille Claudel seems to have no subtitle...

(but I don't know if this source is 100% reliable)


#18 of 111 Paul_Scott

Paul_Scott

    Lead Actor

  • 6,546 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 18 2002

Posted February 02 2004 - 12:06 AM

do French R2 disc ever have English subs?
Posted Image i don't even bother looking into French etailers anymore, as i've never found a French movie there with English subs

#19 of 111 Haggai

Haggai

    Producer

  • 3,883 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 03 2003

Posted February 02 2004 - 06:56 AM

So does anybody have any idea why MGM would have done this? As Michael Rueben pointed out up-thread, it's not with 16X9 users in mind, since the transfers aren't anamorphic. With Columbia's Annie SE, for example, the pan and scan was likely with "family viewers" in mind, or something lame like that. Utterly indefensible, of course, but that's probably what they were thinking. But this problem with the MGM Bergmans just doesn't seem to make any sense on any level.

#20 of 111 Jeff Ulmer

Jeff Ulmer

    Producer

  • 5,593 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 23 1998

Posted February 02 2004 - 07:10 AM

This had been on my list of titles to get, but not anymore. Thanks for saving me some money!