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Questions: LCD Sony KDF-60XBR950


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#1 of 87 Dan

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Posted January 29 2004 - 08:22 AM

After a year of fretting and flip-flop on every technology out there, I up and decided on the KDF-60XBR950 (for burn-in/convergence/viewing angle reasons). With some trepidation I got it all hooked up last night, and am such a stickler I'm a bit worried with some nit-picky assessments... I think.

I did some tweaking and found things to be a bit "soft" on the picture. I had to crank the brightness down to get the blacks more "black" than "charcoal". I know this is an LCD trait, but supposedly this model has overcome a lot of those problems.

Anyone else had any experience with this beauty?

I have two weeks to live the dream before I'm stuck with it for life. I'm pleased, but there are minor things that have a small voice saying "maybe you should have picked up that Hitachi 65" CRT RP TV"... and let the burn in worry rest.

#2 of 87 Jeff Me

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Posted January 29 2004 - 12:15 PM

Many people have had success with these tweaks.

http://www.avsforum.....hreadid=331875

#3 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted January 30 2004 - 12:23 AM

Wow, I am in the exact same camp as you. Except, I am considering the Toshiba 65HX93 if I decide not to keep the XBR. Mine gets delivered today. We'll have to compare initital impressions

Last night I was watching "Taken" on DVD on my 53" Sony CRT Standard TV. The blacks were "inky." I'm hoping that tweaking the XBR will get similar results or I just may not be satisfied.

#4 of 87 Danny Beck

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Posted January 30 2004 - 02:02 AM

If I were you guys i'd stick with that Sony XBR. That is a fantastic tv and I honestly don't think you'll find a better tv for that price.



Danny

#5 of 87 Gregg Loewen

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Posted January 30 2004 - 02:17 AM

hi guys

This is definitely a technology where you have to weigh your desire for "black blacks" vs burn in and brightness.

Best wishes,

Gregg

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#6 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted January 30 2004 - 02:36 AM

I agree competely. My viewing room has 7 windows that are approx 3x5 ft. Overall brightness is def an issue.

Burn in... I've had a Sony CRT RPTV for 4 years now. I've watched 70% TV 30% DVD. All my DVDs are widescreen. I looked at the test pics on the THX video tweak system that comes with Star Wars. Not even a hint of brun in was to be seen.

I still have a healthy respect for burn in, but I don't think it would stop me from buying another CRT. What is a big deal to me though is that LCD technology is much better for video games and PCs. Now I just have to convince the wifey that along with 6 grand for a tv we need to spend 2 grand for another PC to put in the lving room.

Maybe I'll wait a year or so for that one.

Posted Image


P.S. before everyone tells me I got ripped off, it was 5,900 and that included tax and a stand. It also included me spending about 4 hours with the salesman. I'm a firm believer in keeping the B&Ms alive!

#7 of 87 Dan

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Posted January 30 2004 - 03:41 AM

Thanks for all the great input, folks. I'd be happy to hear any moree. I printed off the information from the posted URL- extensive and very helpful.

I toyed with a few more DVDs last night- namely SW II. Holy cow- that movie looked incredible with all it's colors (even set to "standard"--"pro" tends to 'blur' it too much for my tastes). I don't know that I mind the blacks, to be honest. I was worried about inkiness, but I don't notice much of it at all. The only thing giving me any pause after last nights play was the LCD "glimmer mesh" effect on bright colors. But really, I have to point it out to everyone- maybe I'm a little too discerning. But she's pretty, make no mistake.

I threw in a little Xbox Halo and it looked pretty good- even from a standard RCA composite connection. I had to turn brightness down to get better blacks, and it showed on this game-- in darker areas it was very hard to "see". (FYI- my "theatre room" has now windows, so brightness isn't as much of a factor for me.)

You can get this set for a pretty sweet deal- I picked mine up for 4799 after some haggling. I mean, sales guys still need their commission, right? However, I didn't buy the stand (1k for a STAND!?), but did get a 5year service warranty for 500 (mistake?). After tax this came in at about 5600.

All in all, I think I'm steering toward holding on to it- especially if these tweaks work.

Keep me posted on your finds, David!

#8 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted January 30 2004 - 05:14 AM

That's one thing I forgot to try... Often you can get a rock bottom price on a TV if you'll agree to buy the Extended Warranty. Salesmen get a MUCH bigger commission off the warranties.

I'm still eagrely awaiting my set... just sitting here hangin out on my off-day... Hopefully I'll have first impressions this evening.

#9 of 87 Dan

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Posted January 30 2004 - 05:55 AM

Actually, they gave me the price without me signing on for the warranty. But I figured I'm plunking about 5k on a TV- I'd better get the warranty for any dead pixels/future lamp problems.

The key to my price was a price match gauruntee. They met the price of a place across town I had talked to initially. The XBR, however, doesn't have a real large markup- from my experience most sales guys can get their TVs down at least $1000. Such was the case with my initial look at the Sammy DLP.

Anyway, water under the bridge- good luck on the TV delivery!

#10 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted January 30 2004 - 09:12 AM

Well she's been in the house for a couple of hours now and I'e gotten a pretty good look at the ootb picture.

I came from a standard 53" TV so this was a big step up.

480P is nice on DVDs. Matrix II looks incredible. The Vivid setting cuts right through daytime ambient light, but I think I like the standard or pro setting for long term viweing. Vivid is definitely for bright sunny days only.

On Standard I turned down the sharpness,contrast and brightness. All three were very high. I'll fiddle with it some more in the eveining when there's no ambiemt light.

The screen has a bit of glare as t is very glossy, but the picture is so bright that it doesn't matter that much.

Also tonight I'll check the black levels with and without "Cinema Black" activated.

#11 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted January 31 2004 - 02:12 AM

Black levels with and without Cinema Black on are "Dark Grey" or "light black" depending if you are a glass half empty or glass half full kind of person.


In starry sky scenes the reduced black level is apparent, but may not bother you depending on how picky you are.

I'm very picky myself, but as of yet I'm not sure if this matters that much to me. The overall light this tv can put out is huge and to me that may make up for the reduced black level.

And did I mention the color? WOW!

#12 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted January 31 2004 - 02:14 AM

Also, I have no burned out pixels and the fan is very quiet.

#13 of 87 Dan

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Posted February 02 2004 - 04:53 AM

Watched the super bowl on an HD feed yesterday- amazing.

I do have 3 dead pixels that I've noticed, but they don't show on movies, just the sony dvd screen (I have a sony dvd player). I also have a faded green bleed on a straight black screen- but it doesn't effect the picture on TV/movies. The fan is whisper quiet, which is nice.

I'm in process of getting a fix/exchange for that green bleed and hopefully the pixels (Sony says it's standard for the technology, so they may not allow a return...)

I suppose I'm not as picky, as the blacks, though not pitch black, don't bother me... my only complaint really is the LCD mesh.. but that's the technology I suppose.

#14 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted February 02 2004 - 05:29 AM

The mesh is a part of the technology, but if it bothers you there are other things out there that don't have this limiting factor. For almost 6 grand I say be VERY picky.

The smaller the screen the less noticeable it will be. I wouldn't want a 70" XBR for this reason. It has the same pixel count as the 60" with more screen. This results in a bigger mesh that I feel is just too noticeable. I've seen one in the store. From my viewing distance of 11 ft the mesh is just too obvious. On the 60" its practically mesh free from 11 ft.

The 50" Sony LCDs I've seen have almost no hint of mesh more than 4 or 5 feet away. It's a trade-off with screen size.


WOW where did that rant/diatribe come from?:b

Hi Def Superbowl was awesome last night on the 60" XBR. When blacks don't matter this TV is the bomb. Even when blacks do matter it has great detail in its "shades of dark grey"

I'm still on the fence about keeping the TV. I just can't get over how much I spent, plus the fact that DLP 2+ is on the near horizon. Of course the DLP 2+ TVs will still have color wheel limitations, but the lack of mesh and deeper blacks might be the better trade-off.

#15 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted February 02 2004 - 05:30 AM

BTW what is your green bleed issue?

#16 of 87 Dan

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Posted February 02 2004 - 06:50 AM

I'm on the fence for the same reasons you are. I think it's the price tag that makes it harder to swallow. It's a beautiful TV, no doubt. But you just can't get a technology today without some kind of drawback- you just pick the one that bothers you least.

The green bleed is only noticeable when the screen is black (before a movie/DVD loading/input screens). It's a slight fade from the corner. Again, it doesn't effect viewing quality, but I'm definitely being picky about it and have placed a call.

I watched "O, Brother Where Art Thou?" the other night, and that was where the mesh was very noticeablevery noticeable, as there is a lot of bright white and yellows.

Personally, I prefer the mesh over the DLP rainbow effect. What have you heard about DLP 2+?

#17 of 87 Eric_Connelly

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Posted February 02 2004 - 10:07 AM

Can someone tell me the difference between the GW and the XBR?

We've had our GW 60" LCD for about 2 months now and my only regret is not getting the ext warranty, I'm still fighting CC on that part but we've been incredibly happy with it.

This is by far one of the best purchases I have made regarding HT equipment. Alot of the issues you see in the store go away when you get it home, mostly the high motion blurring or pixelating.

I recommend this unit in a heart beat to anyone and I wonder how much better the XBR is. I've seen the 70 XBR but its too big for our room, not to mention budget. From the price we paid and what someone mentioned here what am I getting for an extra 1K?

I've found the blacks to be decent and nothing really to complain about, as long as the bulb doesn't explode I'll be a happy camper Posted Image

#18 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted February 02 2004 - 10:48 AM

I'll check my TV for the green bleed tonight.

If you go to the DLP showcase site they probably have some info on DLP 2+ but essentially it's just DLP 2 improved across the board. Better color, contrast and black level. For some reason, DLP 3 is actually an improved version of DLP 2 but is cheaper. DLP 2+ is high end and better than the other two.

The differences between GW and XBR:

Direct Digital II
Cinema Black
120 UHP lamp vs 100 UHP lamp
Better speakers
More expensive cabinet

Might be a few others but those are the biggies. You're probably better off with the 1,500 you savedPosted Image

#19 of 87 Dan

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Posted February 03 2004 - 05:17 AM

To add to David's comments, the XBR also has a built in HD Tuner and a higher pixel count.

#20 of 87 David Parrish

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Posted February 03 2004 - 06:21 AM

Oh yeah, the tuner:b

That might be a biggie as well!

Dan, did you try different chords to fix the green effect?