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Is a progressive scan DVD player a must?


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#1 of 31 OFFLINE   Carl I

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Posted January 05 2004 - 08:46 AM

Hello all! First post, and it is a question that is killing me!

I just bought a Hitachi 16x9 set, and from what I have been lead to believe, I need to upgrade my DVD player to a progressive scan player. But I also believe I have read some place that a progressive will add a jiggle to the picture that my standard player (Daewoo 5700) doesn't do.

Is this true? Is my choice a matter of clarity over jiggles?

Thanks for the help, and sorry if this has been beaten into the ground, but after a day of many searches on many sites, I have found no real talk of this. Posted Image

#2 of 31 OFFLINE   ty_diaz

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Posted January 05 2004 - 09:10 AM

Hi, I have a Toshiba 16x9 myself and have gotten a progressive scan dvd player. I made changes on the settings for the DVD player so that is progressive when playing a movie and to play them in the 16x9 ratio. So far its been great and didn't see any of jiggle mentioned above.

The only differences I've found so far were in regards of what type of movie you are playing. Some DVD's done have the 16x9 ratio. That's the only major difference so far IMO.
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#3 of 31 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted January 05 2004 - 09:18 AM

No, you do not "need" a progressive scan player. If your TV can handle a progressive scan input, a p/s player may give you some improvement in image quality, but especially with the latest sets, this is a highly subjective matter.

Quote:
But I also believe I have read some place that a progressive will add a jiggle to the picture that my standard player (Daewoo 5700) doesn't do.

I don't know what you're recalling, but there's nothing about p/s players generally that causes "jiggle" (whatever that is). Different players use different chip sets and algorithms to create a p/s output, and some do a better job than others. As with any purchase, it pays to research and compare.

BTW, I'm moving this to Audio/Video Sources, which is the place to ask about DVD players. Look around in that forum, and you'll find plenty of discussion of various p/s players.

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#4 of 31 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted January 05 2004 - 09:37 AM

Well, I expected to be hot on the trail for a new DVD player, but my TV does such a good job providing the Progressive Scan, the video is good enough to keep me happy at least for a while from my cheapo non-progressive scan DVD player.

#5 of 31 OFFLINE   Don_Berg

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Posted January 05 2004 - 10:20 AM

Progressive scan is good if you get one with a top-rated de-interlacer, if you go cheap than interlaced is fine. For progressive only consider ones with the best de-interlacers like Faroudja or Silicon Image.

#6 of 31 OFFLINE   NickSo

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Posted January 05 2004 - 10:22 AM

I think he is confusing 'jiggles' with 'jaggies'


#7 of 31 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted January 05 2004 - 10:35 AM

I'm banking you new Hitatchi lists progressive scan as one of its features.

If this is so, then certainly try your old player and see what you think. I was surprised how well my old cheapie player performed.

#8 of 31 OFFLINE   Carl I

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Posted January 06 2004 - 01:36 AM

I'm trying to find the site where I read about the "jiggles". That was their term, not mine, and it seemed to echo a post I had read a few weeks ago.

I have my Daewoo hooked up now, and it is pretty dang good, aside from the TV seeming to NOT like reds too much. It also isn't too fond of lips on people when they are not in close up. Best way to describe it is you can see the lines too much. Knowing what I know now about progressive scans, it seems like one of those might help with the "line" problem I have. Don't get me wrong though, it all looks wonderful, but this being my forst set, I am not too sure if this could be better. The DVD player is 2 years old, and the TV is the 57" F series for Hitachi.

Thanks for the replies, and for moving the thread to it's rightful home!

#9 of 31 OFFLINE   Carl I

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Posted January 06 2004 - 01:43 AM

Ah, I can't post the link. Dang. Here is the piece in the article, and I was wrong, the word is "judder":

This form of display gives us a moving image very close to the original film. It has a tendency to "judder" a bit though, as the frames alternate between being shown for 1/20th of a second and 1/30th of a second. Even our little synthesis of the final product, which actually contains 10 pieces, shows this judder. In the future, both the player and the display could increase their display rate above 60 fields per second, to 72 per second. At that point, the fields would only last 1/72 of a second, permitting the player to show every film frame three times (24 x 3 = 72), eliminating the motion judder. 72 fps will only work with film based sources though, as it is a multiple of 24. It will not work well with video sources which are 60 field per second. What we need are TVs which, like our computer monitors, can operate at a variety of frequencies, adapting to different sources, but that’s a subject for another day.

#10 of 31 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted January 06 2004 - 04:25 AM

You have your current DVD player hooked up by component cables and Progressive scan turned on in the TV???

#11 of 31 OFFLINE   Carl I

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Posted January 06 2004 - 04:51 AM

Hooked up with S-Video, and the RCA's for sound. I think I need to look for the "progressive scan" option on the set. Heh, could be that simple, eh?

#12 of 31 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted January 06 2004 - 05:15 AM

Svideo, is the pits.. You have an HDTV use it!!!

You need component video and if you have surround sound, you need a digital sound connection.


Component video is the only way to even see / get Progressive Scan from your DVD player. Even if the player is 480i only this will allow the TV to provide the progressive scan from the cheap DVD player.

PS: The best player in the world is not going to look any better on your svideo. Component video is what EDTV and HDTV are all about baby.

#13 of 31 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted January 06 2004 - 05:44 AM

Quote:
Component video is the only way to even see / get Progressive Scan from your DVD player.

He says in his first post that his current player is not progressive.

Quote:
Even if the player is 480i only this will allow the TV to provide the progressive scan from the cheap DVD player.

Wrong. If the TV has line-doubling circuitry that upconverts 480i to 480p (or higher), that circuitry will function on all inputs, including S-video and composite.

It's hard to say more without knowing more about the specific model of Hitachi TV.

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#14 of 31 OFFLINE   Carl I

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Posted January 06 2004 - 06:59 AM

It has a "virtual HD" button on it that takes it from...I think 580 to 1080i. Excuse my ignorance here, I am new to all of this.

"Component video", is that what it shows in the book with the Pr-Pb-Y-L-R? I will have to check my DVD player to see if that is even on there. I have always used the standard RCA cables, as I have always had a standard TV, from 1994.

So, you mean to tell me that my DVD picture can get better than where I am sitting now? The mind boggles!!!

#15 of 31 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted January 06 2004 - 07:45 AM

Quote:
I have always used the standard RCA cables, as I have always had a standard TV, from 1994.

For sound, right? You said you were using S-video for picture.

Quote:
Pr-Pb-Y-L-R

The first three are the component video inputs. The L and R refer to audio inputs. It helps to think of them separately.

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#16 of 31 OFFLINE   Carl I

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Posted January 06 2004 - 07:49 AM

Well, until I got the HDTV I was using all of the RCA's. Now that I have the HD, I am using the SVid, until I get home in about 3 hours and see if I have the component jacks on the back of my DVD player. If so, then about an hour after that check I will be using all component.Posted Image

#17 of 31 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted January 06 2004 - 08:09 AM

Carl, just be sure to use good quality cables for the component connection. High-quality video signals are more sensitive to bad cabling than just about anything else. You want to make sure that you're using three identical video cables, all 75-ohm. Audio cables (which are typically 50-ohm) are not a good option, and mixing different types and lengths of cables is a very bad idea. Your best bet is to get a dedicated 3-strand component cable, which will also have the advantage of being color-coded for ease of connection.

If you look here and in the connections forum, you'll find lots of threads about different types of component cables.

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#18 of 31 OFFLINE   Carl I

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Posted January 06 2004 - 08:20 AM

I'm finding I have A LOT to learn about this stuff, but I seem to be taking the proper step by finding these forums. I am on my way to the connections forum to check out what is said there.

Bunches and bunches of thanks for the help everybody!

#19 of 31 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted January 06 2004 - 08:50 AM

Micheal Reuben:

Even if the player is 480i only this will allow the TV to provide the progressive scan from the cheap DVD player.

"Wrong. If the TV has line-doubling circuitry that upconverts 480i to 480p (or higher), that circuitry will function on all inputs, including S-video and composite."


I have yet to see a TV yet really provide 480p from svideo, and composite sources. Or if they do, it is so weak compared to what you get with component video that it is really not an option. I have tested this on an many installs, often to prove the component video difference. Most sets have 1 component 480i input, and this is the only input that has Progressive Scan available for 480i sources.

#20 of 31 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted January 06 2004 - 09:21 AM

Quote:
I have yet to see a TV yet really provide 480p from svideo, and composite sources. Or if they do, it is so weak compared to what you get with component video that it is really not an option.

With all those qualifiers ("really provide", "so weak compared to what you get with component", "really not an option"), it's clear that you're talking about the quality of the 480p upconversion. I agree that, the better the input signal, the better the upconversion. But that doesn't make your original statement accurate.

Quote:
Most sets have a 480i input, and this is the only input that has Progressive Scan for 480i sources.
I'm not sure whether this statement is confused or just evasive, since a "480i input" could be component, S-video or composite. And on every set I've ever seen with line-doubling or other upconverstion circuitry, all of these get upconverted. The results may not always be ideal, but that's a different issue.

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