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Major CUE issues :f


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#1 of 28 OFFLINE   Trevor_J

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Posted January 04 2004 - 06:13 AM

I just recently set up my HT which includes an Epson TW100 FP with the Farouja DcDi scaler along with a Sony DVP-NC625 5 disc changer(a temporary solution while I'm waiting to see what new mega changers are available this year) which is connected to my FP via Svideo.

I've only begun watching movies for a couple of weeks now and I had heard about the chroma bug before. A couple of nights ago while watching Bad Boys II there were a few scenes where there were obvious streaks in the image where there was an abundance of red. I've watched a few movies since then and last night I watched 'Chicago' for the first time. The CUE was so bad in this film that it bordered on unwatchable. An example of the most offensive scene was about 57:00 into the film (Chapter 9 I believe) when the 'Roxy' Marquee is displayed in bright red. I've determined that I cannot live with this problem therefore this player is going back to where it came from and I will search for another low price 5 disc changer that does not have this problem.

I did go back to the Secrets website to research a bug free player but found that their list is severely out of date. Also, according to the Secrets article, the DcDi chip (which my TW100 has) is supposed to remedy this problem. I can say with certainty that it doesn't seem to be doing anything.

My questions are 1) Does the DcDi processing mask/fix the CUE generated by the DVD player and 2) Are there any low priced 5 disc changers that are CUE free?

TIA.
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#2 of 28 OFFLINE   Don_Berg

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Posted January 04 2004 - 06:45 AM

The CUE is caused by a poor MPG decoder chip not the de-interlacer chip. Faroudja is a de-interlacer chip. Also DCDi is only used for video material whereas for the film-based movie examples you are seeing CUE, DCDi mode is not used. In some cases the Faroudja can mask CUE somewhat but it depends on how it is setup on a particular design. You have to get a model with a good CUE-free MPG decoder like the great old models Panasonic RP82,XP30,XP50 or the Denon DVD-1600. I believe none of the Denon Faroudja-based models (910,1200,etc) have CUE.

#3 of 28 OFFLINE   Trevor_J

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Posted January 05 2004 - 04:34 AM

Are those models from the previous generation? The one's I have been looking at are the Panasonic DVDF65F which is their current 5 disc changer. Does anyone know if the newer Panasonics have the CUE bug?
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#4 of 28 OFFLINE   Don_Berg

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Posted January 05 2004 - 07:48 AM

Yes the last generation Panasonic models were top-rated quality. The current cheaper models are a totally different inferior design however - avoid them. The new models have CUE and poor de-interlacing.

#5 of 28 OFFLINE   Trevor_J

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Posted January 05 2004 - 08:23 AM

Thanks for the info.

I'm not too concerned with the de-interlacing as I am using the scaler in my PJ to do this, the CUE problems are my major concern. Do you have any info on the Toshiba 5 disc changers? Specifically the SD2815 and the 3815?

Having come from a 300 disc changer I really need a 5 disc or more changer to hold me over until I decide on which 400 disc changer to purchase in the new year. I also see that RCA has a 5 disc changer, how has RCA's track record been with respect to CUE problems in their players?
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#6 of 28 OFFLINE   Don_Berg

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Posted January 05 2004 - 10:18 AM

RCA and Toshiba are poor quality too and have CUE. Go with a Denon.

#7 of 28 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted January 05 2004 - 11:36 AM

Since you are using s-video, which deinterlacer is not important, as you cannot pass progressive via s-vid.

IMO, you should at least TRY whichever player's scaler, since it may do a better job than the Epson.

If you search, Secrets has tests of newer models, they don't update the old shootouts, though not all current models are yet tested.

Just because a player has the CUE, does not mean it is the end of the world, as the Denon 2900 and 2200 both suffer from CUE. As noted though, the DCDi that they use is able to do a decent job at masking the problem, while the Epson may not. Your display size will also be a factor, since the larger the screen, the greater your ability to detect the issue will be.
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#8 of 28 OFFLINE   Trevor_J

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Posted January 06 2004 - 02:37 AM

Quote:
Just because a player has the CUE, does not mean it is the end of the world


I wish I could take a picture to show you what I'm seeing. The CUE that I'm experiencing is horrid compared to my old Pioneer 300 disc changer.

I will try to find a local supplier of Denon DVD players.

Thanks for the help.
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#9 of 28 OFFLINE   Kwang Suh

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Posted January 06 2004 - 02:48 PM

Quote:
Toshiba are poor quality too and have CUE
For the billionth time, the recent Toshiba models (3900/4900/3950) do not have the CUE.

#10 of 28 OFFLINE   Trevor_J

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Posted January 06 2004 - 04:50 PM

Kwang, do you know if the 5 disc changers have the CUE? The models I'm referring to are the 2815 and the 3815.

I was at Best Buy this afternoon and I saw a Samsung DVD-C631p 5 disc changer with progressive scan. Does anyone know if this player is CUE free?


All I want is a 5 disc sub $200 player that is CUE free. Is that too much to ask? Posted Image
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#11 of 28 OFFLINE   Trevor_J

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Posted January 06 2004 - 04:52 PM

Ok, I threw on Moulin Rouge tonight and ended up turning it off. The CUE errors were hideous to say the least. I attempted to take a few pictures of it but without a tripod they all came out pretty blurry. Here is a sample from the bunch. Take a look at the streaks in his face. Now imagine them in focus and 12 inches long. Get the picture?

*Edit*

Sorry, forgot to add the image:

Posted Image
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#12 of 28 OFFLINE   Trevor_J

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Posted January 06 2004 - 05:02 PM

Sorry about the size but resizing it resulted in the streaks disappearing.
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#13 of 28 OFFLINE   BryanM

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Posted January 06 2004 - 06:00 PM

Quote:
Yes the last generation Panasonic models were top-rated quality. The current cheaper models are a totally different inferior design however - avoid them. The new models have CUE and poor de-interlacing.


Don,
While agree with the top quality of Panasonic's previous models (I have an XP50 myself), the newer models do NOT have the Chroma error. While the newer chips are not Faroudja, they are not that bad (pretty good for their price point actually). They are Panasonic's own all-in-one chip.

#14 of 28 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted January 07 2004 - 05:02 AM

That does not look like CUE to me. Based on what I have seen on Secrets, CUE will show up as a horizontal jaggedness, and your "striations" are vertical. I think you have a different issue.
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#15 of 28 OFFLINE   Trevor_J

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Posted January 07 2004 - 07:12 AM

I just tried the Panny 5 disc changer. Again, the same vertical stripes. I'm beginning to think that it may be a different problem as well, though I am still doubtful as the streaks only appear in the colour RED. I've tried 3 different DVD players and all showed the exact same streaking. There are 2 possible solutions, either there's a problem with my PJ or there's a problem with my Pre-Amp. I did try 2 different cables which made no difference whatsoever. Also, I've watched quite a bit of DirecTV and never noticed this problem (and I was looking for it) so I'm still leaning towards the player but if anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears/eyes.

I think I'll try connecting the Svideo directly from the player to the PJ.

TIA.
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#16 of 28 OFFLINE   Jeff W.

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Posted January 08 2004 - 05:22 AM

Quote:
For the billionth time, the recent Toshiba models (3900/4900/3950) do not have the CUE.


Actually the 3950 does have CUE.

Look at the drawers in the background change colors -->
Posted Image

#17 of 28 OFFLINE   Kwang Suh

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Posted January 08 2004 - 06:05 AM

What does the drawer changing colors have to do with the CUE?

#18 of 28 OFFLINE   Kwang Suh

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Posted January 08 2004 - 06:14 AM

Quote:
Kwang, do you know if the 5 disc changers have the CUE? The models I'm referring to are the 2815 and the 3815.
They look like the newer models, so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have the CUE.

#19 of 28 OFFLINE   Trevor_J

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Posted January 08 2004 - 07:48 AM

Thanks for the reply. By looking at my sample above, does that appear to be CUE to you? There are some horizontal streaks but the vertical streaks are definately more pronounced.
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#20 of 28 OFFLINE   Kwang Suh

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Posted January 08 2004 - 10:26 AM

It could be. Perhaps the scaler is masking the CUE somewhat (some dvd players do this as well).

On the other hand, it could be just that deep reds don't look all that great in the first place on some DVDs. Or you could have red push on your TV.

IMHO, it's not the CUE. Have you tried another DVD player?


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