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Just Got Wiseguy : Arc 2 (Kevin Spacey) Early!


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#1 of 19 R. Kay

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Posted December 29 2003 - 04:23 PM

These suckers have chapter stops & 'Play All' Function this time ...

Also, terrific interviews on Disc 4 with Kevin Spacey, Joan Severence, Stephen Cannell, David Burke (Writer), William Russ (LoCoco), and Vinnie's Mother (Oy! Who's idea was that?).

Spacey talks for 17 minutes. I'm impressed he talked for that long! Terrific anecdotes.

Burke's and Cannell's are good as well.

No Ken Wahl Video Interview, but I think we all know why.

Wahl does 1 Episode audio commentary track on Disc 1.

Video looks pretty good. Better than Arc 1.

Audio has original 2 channel & 5.1 (like the Arc 1). Decent quality. Slightly artificial 5.1.

For anyone who has never seen it, at least go out and rent it. Great television. Spacey & Russ are amazing. Writing's superb.

#2 of 19 Henry Gale

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Posted December 30 2003 - 12:21 AM

Great! Been waiting for this one.
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#3 of 19 Will_B

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Posted December 30 2003 - 02:15 AM

Quote:
No Ken Wahl Video Interview, but I think we all know why.


Searched around but all I found was that he'd been in a couple motorcycle accidents - is that what you mean?
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#4 of 19 R. Kay

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Posted December 30 2003 - 03:02 AM

Quote:
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No Ken Wahl Video Interview, but I think we all know why.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Searched around but all I found was that he'd been in a couple motorcycle accidents - is that what you mean?

Ken Wahl has serious medical problems stemming from his motorcycle accidents. The guy broke his neck & can barely walk and just had more surgery to alleviate more pain.

#5 of 19 Dean L

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Posted December 30 2003 - 11:56 AM

I'm lame.
Yet to pick up either the "steelgrave arc" or the "mel arc"

Probably my favorite TV series ever.
The cheap bastard in me is lookin' for a good deal now for buying both of them both together.

#6 of 19 george kaplan

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Posted December 30 2003 - 12:04 PM

I skipped the first one since it didn't have the proper music. I'll buy this one, but only if the original music is there. Does anyone know?
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#7 of 19 R. Kay

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Posted December 30 2003 - 03:03 PM

George: Its a shame you passed up the Steelgrave arc.

The quality of the show should override the music issues.

Its not Cannell's fault that the Moody Blues were holding them up for major money.

#8 of 19 george kaplan

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Posted December 30 2003 - 04:30 PM

I don't know whose fault it is, all I know is that I'm a stickler when it comes to OAR and uncut, uncensored. I've bypassed Wiseguy, the Mary Tyler Moore Show, The Man Show and will be bypassing Kung Fu.

I think very, very highly of Wiseguy, but original music and aspect ratio are essentially non-negotiable for me. I'll pay a lot more to get them, but I won't pay anything without them.
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I...

#9 of 19 Nicodemus

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Posted December 30 2003 - 06:44 PM

There probably isn't subtitles on this set either?

#10 of 19 David Lambert

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Posted December 30 2003 - 09:19 PM

Quote:
Its not Cannell's fault that the Moody Blues were holding them up for major money.
I know that's what Ken Wahl originally claimed was the reason for the song elimination. And I know you know about that, because you commented on it and I credited you in my news item! Posted Image


But did you ever read this HTF post from months later, and the ones following it in that thread? It's mostly between me and Randy A. Salas, who posts here a lot when he's not reporting on DVDs for the Minneapolis Star-Tribune.


Here are the pertinent parts:

Randy A Salas:
Quote:
I haven't checked with the Moody Blues, but it's unlikely that they held up the rights to the song. They've always granted access in the past. Many movies, such as the self-titled film, Shattered and Casino, feature the song. Shattered came out on DVD around the same time as Wiseguy.

I did check with the exec at Universal Music Group who would be involved in clearing the rights to the song. He said he had never been approached about the rights to the song and was unaware that Wiseguy had come out on DVD. "No one ever spoke to me about this" was his exact response to my inquiry.

So here's a case where the producers of the DVD are claiming that the music rights are too expensive, yet the music company is saying that it was never even asked about the song. From this, I infer that the producers were making a general statement that the music rights are expensive but that they didn't actually try to negotiate each song before deciding to go a different route.

At any rate, based on the song's past reuse history, I feel that at least it could have been included on Wiseguy.

And just as a quick background, I have written about the Moody Blues for more than 20 years as the co-founder of Higher & Higher, the Moody Blues Magazine, and served as a consultant on the band's retrospective CD boxed set, Time Traveller.


David Lambert:
I wholeheartedly agree that "the record company's response was pretty enlightening". I would love to have been a fly on the wall watching whatever process resulted in a DVD producer saying a song was edited out due to expensive music rights, and the music rights holder on the other hand claiming they were never asked to name a price.

It's possible that the Wiseguy DVD producers decided up front to bag ALL the music that they even *thought* would cost them a pretty penny - without even investigating if it really cost anything - because the decision made early on would let them know that they'd come in under budget and not even have to spend the dollars to research anything. That is probably the happiest face one could put on such a decision. It's still a boneheaded play considering the very bad feedback from fans on the issue of NiWS being cut, and how TOTALLY the feel of the scene was changed.

When you consider the statement Ken Wahl made on the subject of the music changes (including NiWS), then it looks like the blanket decision I suggest might have been the way they went, without even trying to negotiate even ONE song (NiWS in particular).

Considering that I know for a fact it's cost them sales of the set, as Ken Wahl feared it would, it might have been the worst music-cost-related editing decision anyone could ever make! Posted Image

Randy A Salas:
Quote:
It's possible that the Wiseguy DVD producers decided up front to bag ALL the music that they even *thought* would cost them a pretty penny - without even investigating if it really cost anything - because the decision made early on would let them know that they'd come in under budget and not even have to spend the dollars to research anything.
We're on the same page, Dave. That's the same conclusion I've come to.


And it's george kaplan's right to decide not to buy that set because Nights In White Satin is not on there. Ken Wahl never OUTRIGHT said it would cost them sales, but he clearly had thoughts that it might. Well, george is the living proof of that!
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#11 of 19 R. Kay

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Posted December 31 2003 - 02:54 AM

The song 'Good Lovin' was used in a scene immediately preceeding 'NIWS'.

If the Wiseguy producers were 'lazy' (not a quote, but an exageration to make a point), as some have implied, why did 'Good Lovin' make the cut and 'Nights' didnt?

#12 of 19 R. Kay

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Posted December 31 2003 - 02:56 AM

It's Kaplan's right not to buy the sets. I just think its a shame that he missed out on a great set of shows.

#13 of 19 David Lambert

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Posted December 31 2003 - 03:51 AM

Quote:
If the Wiseguy producers were 'lazy', as some have implied, why did 'Good Lovin' make the cut and 'Nights' didnt?

I didn't use the word "lazy", nor did Randy. Please don't put words in our mouths. Posted Image


Rather, my opinion was - and is - that they probably jumped to a conclusion. I've never seen Wiseguy, nor am I buying these DVD sets (I just can't afford them with everything else on my plate). So I have no idea what was and wasn't included song-wise.

But the supposition that I am making is that the DVD producers had reason to believe that "Good Lovin'" and other songs that made it onto the set could be cleared with very little fuss and cost. And that songs (or perhaps just one song (NIWS) in the end, I dunno) that did NOT make it onto the DVD were just ASSUMED to be difficult or costly.


Then again, that might not be it at all. You never know how these things get started. For all we know (and I'm just making up an example here, not trying to start any rumors), there could be a guy in charge of securing music for a DVD set, he is told to go get rights to a particular song, he finds out that the guy he has to deal with is someone he hates for some old reason, and so he decides not to deal with it at all. Or maybe he just forgot to pursue it until it was too late. When everyone asks him "where are the rights to that song?" he's gonna cover his ass, so he casually lies and says "Oh, I had to pass...too expensive; we'll have to work around it". Then the star of the show gets all worked up and goes off about why he thinks rights like that got to be expensive, when the reality is that noone was ever asked for a price.

Again, I'll emphasize that I'm just theorizing here. But in each of our jobs every day we see a guy covering up with a simple and believable excuse, but upon closer examination it just doesn't hold water. I don't think this practice is any different in Hollywood. Posted Image


Whether someone was lying in the way of a CYA, or whether they made a bad assumption, or were lazy, or something else we can't imagine, I'm just bringing up the possibility that it might not really be that the music was too expensive.


Randy has reported that a source he trusts states that noone ever asked for those rights, and if someone had then this person would have known about it. Nothing's perfect, and maybe for some reason this guy didn't know about the rights having been asked for, and it got by him. But the additional evidence of the same song being licensed to three other releases, one of them at almost the exact same time, definately makes me believe that the disconnect was at the end of the DVD producers, rather than with the people who license this song out for these things. My point is that there's ALL KINDS of reasons as to how that might have happened.
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#14 of 19 James_S

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Posted December 31 2003 - 05:07 AM

I am just finished up with Arc 1 and have Arc 2 sitting right here ready to start, but I need to wait the wife wants to finish The Soprano's Season 3 first and than we will watch Arc 2 and the Soprano's season 4.


Quote:
The cheap bastard in me is lookin' for a good deal now for buying both of them both together.


Buy.com has Get $20 Off Instantly! Purchase Wiseguy: Season 1 Part 1 and Wiseguy: Season 1 Part 2 and Get $20 Off Instantly! Offer valid from 12/5/2003 to 1/30/2004.
Total $93.36 shipped which is a couple of bucks cheaper the Best Buy.
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#15 of 19 george kaplan

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Posted December 31 2003 - 06:00 AM

David,

While I obviously can't recommend buying the dvds, I do have to say that as far as the show goes, you don't know what you're missing. This is (IMO) the best dramatic crime show ever made for television.
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

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#16 of 19 Will_B

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Posted December 31 2003 - 09:31 AM

Quote:
This is (IMO) the best dramatic crime show ever made for television


Though you sure do have to forgive some of the scenes for not quite living up to what was probably scripted -- I am thinking of the Sonny Steelgrave arc where

The Feds keep up a running commentary on their search for Vinnie and Sonny while in the very same room, completely within earshot, of all the assorted mobsters!

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#17 of 19 Tom De Rosa

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Posted December 31 2003 - 11:40 AM

BestBuy will have them for $46.99 each, with $20 off if you buy both next week.

#18 of 19 R. Kay

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Posted January 02 2004 - 04:03 AM

Also Includes 'Play All' function for each disc.

#19 of 19 R. Kay

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Posted January 02 2004 - 04:07 AM

David : Regardless of the editing issues, you should rent it to see terrific television.


Back to TV on DVD and Blu-ray


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