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InFocus X1 vs Sony Grand Wega


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20 replies to this topic

#1 of 21 OFFLINE   Kirk Patrick

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Posted December 27 2003 - 12:24 PM

I was set on getting a Grand Wega but here in Canada they are still a little pricey for me.

A front projector is an option I have never considered at all..I have never even seen one.

Could anyone offer an opinion on the relative sharpness, brightness etc of an InFocus X1 (about 12-13 feet away, using a decent screen and a very dark environment) vs a 60 inch Grand Wega? I am guessing the Wega would produce the "best" image (realizing "best" is highly subjective)

Are the images close in quality?

I tend to really like the sharpness of my 27" Wega and frankly have never liked the picture I see on Rear projection CRT's which seemed to blurry to me.

I would buy a 34 Wega 16x9 Direct View except the image is just too small (though beautiful)

So it seems like the front Projector might be a great way to go but I haven't had the pleasure of seeing one yet.
Thanks for any replies.
"If I'm curt, then I apologize"

#2 of 21 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted December 27 2003 - 02:07 PM

Kirk, I'm assuming Victoria BC, as in that big island thing that's near WA, right? In which case I would be remiss if I didn't mention that you were close to Curt Palme, in Vancouver, who sells refurbished CRT projectors, which would get you both the PQ that you desire from something like a Wega, and the big size that something like an X1 would provide.

You should try to go see a few digital projectors to see if you like them, and also talk to Curt, and try to see one of his setups. It's another projector option that most don't consider, or are unaware, and you being relatively close, you can do things in person, and not have to deal with shipping costs, etc etc, which are quite significant for CRT.

Here's a link to an older version of his Primer, obviously CRT-biased, but true, and a good info start.

http://www.monroe.ne...le/PalmeCRt.pdf

I don't know your price range, but an X1 is just a smidgen under a grand right? You could probably get a decent 720p-capable CRT for that price perhaps. Maybe pushing it, hard to say. Though it will be a much bigger picture, so regardless, any projector probably won't quite look as sharp as a much smaller direct-view set. Anyway, just another option! good luck!

#3 of 21 OFFLINE   Kirk Patrick

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Posted December 28 2003 - 06:12 AM

chris
thanks for your thoughtful reply, i read curt's primer with great interest but clearly it's not for me...after 20 solid years of a rabid fascination with technology in all forms i have reached a stage where even the slightest demand to tweak some piece of electronics irritates the hell out of me!!!

mounting and focussing a 200 pound projector is well beyond my interests and/or energy level. unfortunately i need to be an alchemist to get what i want...

---light weight = lcd front or rear projector
---sharp and bright image in all light = direct view crt tv
---large vibrant image = crt projector, lcd projector ????

it's interesting, your post has helped me clarify interests, i believe i am headed toward the sony 34 crt or the X1 and am tending to rule out the Sony Grand Wega which is in a sense a poor compromise between the two opposing goals: large image size and vibrant, sharp image

though i bet there are Grand Wega partisans out there who will say just the opposite...that it is the perfect compromise of large image size and sharp image

certainly here in canada at 5000 for the 50", it's no particular bargain compared to the lcd front projector and increasingly cheaper 34' 16x9 direct views

in any event i am hoping and anticipating that the spring will bring a veritable feast of ever lower priced options in all areas
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#4 of 21 OFFLINE   Mike LS

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Posted December 29 2003 - 01:05 AM

At 12-13 feet from the screen you'll be limited to the image size you can get out of an X1. I think it's classified as a long throw projector. From that distance, you'll be able to beat the pants off of 50 inches, but you won't get a huge image out of it either. You'd probably want to check a distance chart out.....try http://www.infocus.com and see if you can download the documentation on the X1 to see how far back you'd need to have the PJ to get the screen size you want.

#5 of 21 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted December 29 2003 - 02:22 AM

Greetings

The pixel array on the Sony is significantly higher than the X1 ... and the X1 is very prone to rainbows. I see them every time I blink ... and I'm not looking for them either.

With the GW ... you deal with dead pixels ... gonna happen at some time ... and vertical motion artifacts ... and eventual wear of certain components after about 1500 hr ... which cause signifcant color shifts ... (repairable)

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#6 of 21 OFFLINE   Todd Terwilliger

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Posted December 29 2003 - 03:29 AM

I would demo the X1 and see if you see any rainbows (very few people percentage wise do). You might also want to check out the Sanyo Z1 and Z2 LCD projectors. The X1 is a long-throw projector. I think the Sanyo's are shorter throws and have a bit higher resolution. That said, the X1 is a great deal for the price (mine is arriving this week) especially with the extended warranty and long bulb life.
This message ends with Todd.

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#7 of 21 OFFLINE   Scott Dautel

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Posted December 29 2003 - 06:30 AM

Sony GW III (LCD): pixel array = 720 x 1280 (16:9 mode)
InFocus X1 (DLP): pixel array = 450 x 800 (16:9 mode)
InFocus X1 (DLP): pixel array = 600 x 800 (4:3 mode)

For the X1 at 12.5 ft. throw distance, you will get a 16:9 image anywhere from 75.8" - 91.1" diagonal.

You seem to have an ideal setup for the X1. My experience is that a 90"-100" (diag @ 16:9 AR) with a 12' seating distance is really near optimal. If you go much larger with the image, the limits of broadcast TV become quite apparent and brightness drops off. If you sit closer than 1.5x screen width, screendoor effect becomes apparent. Be aware that the X1 NEEDS A DARK ROOM! I can't stress this enough. If you want to occasionally watch with moderate room lighting, or envision a Superbowl party with people filtering in & out of the room, the X1 is NOT for you.

That said, the Sony GWIII will give you a slightly better image and will do better with HDTV (720p in particular). While the X1 is said to deliver an amazing image with an HDTV source (I've not tried), an LCD RPTV just simply wins by pixel count.

If you will use your setup mostly for DVD movies in a dark room, I say you can't beat the giant image of the X1 ... not to mention it is 1/3 the cost, that's what I chose. But if you want the versatility and ease-of-use of a TV, go for the Sony.

So you decide ... home theater or simply big TV.

Scott

#8 of 21 OFFLINE   DaViD Boulet

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Posted December 29 2003 - 08:24 AM

Why not get the Sony HS20 LCD projector (going for around $2500 I think) or the Sanyo Z2 (goes for around $2K)? Both are 16x9 and full 1280 x 720 HD resolution (the HS20 is a tad more). Either one should blow away the 50" RP set. Size really *does* matter when we're talking about movies!

And yes, both will produce vibrant, sharp, detailed images that rival the real thing. You may see pixels at 1.5 screen-widths, but the Sony has an MLA filter to help "blend" pixels to reduce the screen-door visibility (and I think the Sanyo has something similar). Well-recorded DVDs viewed from about 1.75 screen-widths away will look positively film-like and everyone who sees it will say "better than the theater". Really.

Bottom line: If you can turn off the lights--spend whatever money you were going to spend on that "TV" and buy a PROJECTOR. It makes the difference between "video" and "Home theater" IMO. Right now very few folks have really gotten into front projection...but in about 5 years it will be common place. Just like we don't consider a home-theater complete without a 5.1 DD/DTS system (though 5 years back a ProLogic system was all you saw in many serious HT systems), in a few years projection will become standard in the enthusiast's HT system. It's a good thing Posted Image

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#9 of 21 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted December 29 2003 - 09:04 AM

Ahem, the viewer may see rainbows. It isn't that the X1 may be PRONE to them. Most people don't see rainbows.


lol. Certainly some projectors have more visible rainbows. And certainly too some people notice them more than others. Don't blame a weakness of a projector on the viewer...

#10 of 21 OFFLINE   DuWayne

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Posted December 29 2003 - 10:00 AM

Well, if you want to do the FP thing, my Sanyo Z2 ships tomorow. By this weekend, I should be able to post some pics...if you're still interested.

#11 of 21 OFFLINE   Jeff W.

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Posted December 29 2003 - 10:20 AM

DLP makes me seasick to look at it. Am I crazy or what?

I don't see rainbows exactly, it just looks kind of "slow", like there is a lag on anything that's moving. I can't watch it for more than 10 seconds without feeling nauseous...

#12 of 21 OFFLINE   Todd Terwilliger

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Posted December 29 2003 - 11:55 AM

Infocus offers a free demo for the X1 so it's a no-brainer to try it out. I've heard great things about the Z2 as well.

I went with the X1 because of the great price, long bulb life, and extended warranty. Plus, I want to wait until some higher res projectors hit the marketplace before I invest any deeper.

I'll try to get a couple of screenshots together this weekend.
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Stay off...

#13 of 21 OFFLINE   Matt_Marlow

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Posted December 29 2003 - 01:50 PM

I own a 65" HDTV (Toshiba 65H81) and an Infocus X1. If I had to choose between the two for sheer visual impact and enjoyment for watching movies I'd have to go with the X1 despite the vast price difference; I paid over $3,000 for the TV versus $999 for the X1.

First of all, the Toshiba wins hands down on black levels and shadow detail. There is no comparison. But the X1 wins on size and visual impact. Again, no comparison. The X1 can look very nice if you have light control and I believe using component video makes a major difference too. Depending on your DVD player, using either the component to S-video adaptor OR the component to VESA adaptor really is far superior to using straight S-video. In comparing the component to S and the compenent to VESA, they're about equal to my eyes.

I was watching Band of Brothers at 100" roughly, and there's just no way a TV can look that cool. My TV is calibrated with Video Essentials and does put out a nice picture, but I believe once you view the larger screen (mine basically takes up the whole width of my wall) the TV will never look "big" again.

As far as rainbows, I haven't seen any yet, but of course that will vary from person to person. I also believe there are a lot of better digital PJs out there, but I'm pretty happy with the X1 for my first projector. Even with viewingregular TV on the X1, when I had family members over for the holidays they were just stunned when watching football and all thought the picture quality was pretty nice. Yes, a CRT PJ would be better in many ways, but even at the same price I would never go that route simply because of the convenience factor (i.e. 6 pounds vs. 200 pounds). If I had to make a choice between a large RPTV or a digital projector I'd go with the projector (and probably spend a little more and step up from the X1), but I guess size is more important to me than picture quality. But the picture quality is still darn good with the X1!

My PJ is a bit over 14'or 15' from my wall and I have roughly 110" 4:3 and around a 100" 16:9 image. I think you could still get over 90" with your room.

#14 of 21 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted December 29 2003 - 02:09 PM

Sanyo Z2 is my top pick if I had the cash right now. 720p, DVI, and a nice price! Posted Image

#15 of 21 OFFLINE   AndyHangartner

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Posted December 29 2003 - 02:35 PM

Seasick? from a DLP. Thats a new one.
andy

#16 of 21 OFFLINE   Kirk Patrick

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Posted December 29 2003 - 02:40 PM

Great replies from everyone thank you.
I should have said that I will be watching dvd's primarily and little to no TV at all.

I am jazzed about the X1. It seems like it's well worth looking at. I guess the "rainbow effect" will be something I will have to determine on my own by looking and demoing.

If I could get a 90" image from 12 feet away that was bright and sharp in a dark room, I would be pleased. I get the feeling that it's very doable with the X1. Though I will also look seriously at the Sanyo Z2 as well because of DVI input which I gather if married to a DVI out DVD makes an excellent image.

One final question, any thought on the sound level for both the X1 and Z2, I should say that I usually use large earmuff headphones because my hearing is poor and to hear well I would disturb most of my neighbors.

Any posted pictures of either machine would be appreciated.
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#17 of 21 OFFLINE   AndyHangartner

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Posted December 29 2003 - 02:54 PM

Kirk
Don't let anyone scare you from a DLP projector with this rainbow thing. Maybe it does exist but it is being blown out of proportion by some. I have a Sharp Z1000 and the picture is fantastic. Absolutely astounding. I had the Z9000 and never heard anyone mention some rainbow effect while viewing. I considered the Z2 by Sanyo but there is alot of talk about screen door and vertical banding. Now that would drive me nuts! The consensus seems to be, you must sit at least 1.5x screen width to alleviate the SDE. I will tell you I cannot see screen door at farther than 18 inches from my screen. DLP images also do not move slow and the blacks and shadow detail blows away LCD projectors. Do yourself a favor and get something with a return guarantee. I know projector people does offer a 4 hour 100% refund.
good luck
andy

#18 of 21 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted December 29 2003 - 06:38 PM

An X1 would display the worst case of the rainbow effect as its colorwheel is only 2x. It's DLP competitors like the Plus Piano HE-3100 sport a 4x color wheel.

#19 of 21 OFFLINE   Chris.Au

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Posted December 29 2003 - 07:39 PM

Yeh I have to say that I looked at the X1 and Didn't like what I saw. The rainbow and screen affect made me a litlle sick.I am seriusly looking at the Sony HS20, HDTV through the Sony looked great, almost perfect (for the price)

#20 of 21 OFFLINE   DuWayne

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Posted December 29 2003 - 08:50 PM

Here are the reviews... at least the ones that sold me.

Infocus X1

Sanyo Z2

Personally, I would opt for 16:9 Native (Sanyo) vs. a 4:3 Native (Infocus) projector. Plus Sanyo gives a 3year warrenty vs. a 2 year one.

...I'm sort of picky that way...

PS. I can also throw my Samsung HD931 on the Sanyo at 720p /w DVI output!