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Better to build ~$240 powered sub or buy retail/prebuilt? And best subwoofer ~$150


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24 replies to this topic

#1 of 25 OFFLINE   Mattak

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Posted December 15 2003 - 09:06 AM

I need a powered sub to complete my system. I'd like to build it myself, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. I don't care much about the aesthetics of the box, but more about the performance. I have plenty of acreage to play a sub loud, and that's what I want to do.

I have 3/4" MDF already. I'm looking at the following at partsexpress:

250W SUBWOOFER AMPLIFIER - $89
DAYTON 12" TITANIC MKII SUBWOOFER 4 OHM - $150

Would I be better off just going for a prebuild powered sub for $240 or less, or will there be a noticable difference in power/volume of building it myself? I'd gain a more professional finish with prebuilt, but I'd rather have better sound.

Also, is the Dayton a good choice, or can I do better with $150? I've looked at the adire shiva's, but they don't look as good on paper (albeit a little less expensive).

Thanks in advance,
Matt

#2 of 25 OFFLINE   Rogozhin

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Posted December 15 2003 - 10:30 AM

What amp are you going to use to drive it?

My $200 12" shiva box (homebuilt with 3/4" mdf) kicks the snot out of all the prebuilt active subs I've demo'd.


rogo
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#3 of 25 OFFLINE   Mattak

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Posted December 15 2003 - 10:42 AM

I was looking at this one from partsexpress:

hxxp://xxx.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-794

(change the x's to tt and www repectively...stupid forum rule :|).

Also, box design/plans/ideas would be appreciated Posted Image

#4 of 25 OFFLINE   Dustin B

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Posted December 15 2003 - 12:29 PM

If you've got space consider an Adire Tempest with that amp.

http://www.adireaudi...empest_apps.htm

If you want to save money I'd just rework one of those designs to use a single 6" straight port.

Bottom line though is there is nothing under $400 that could compete with that amp and a Titanic MKII. And even then there are only a few and they are all internet direct. That is until you start getting up closer to the $1000 point. The ported Tempest would take $800-$900 to match internet direct and well over $1000USD to match with your typical commercial fair.
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#5 of 25 OFFLINE   Gerry S

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Posted December 15 2003 - 01:21 PM

Matt:

Hate to bring this up, but I hope you already bought the amp. That was the price on a one day sale - the price is back up to $128.00.

I purchased the amp at $128 and the Dayton DVC 12" driver and am building my own. I am in the process of building it now so I cant tell you how good it sounds from my own experience. From what others have told me, the $300 or so I spend on parts should better or at least compete with manufactured subwoofers in the $800 to $1000 range.

-Gerry

#6 of 25 OFFLINE   Mattak

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Posted December 15 2003 - 01:29 PM

Thanks for the response. Very nice looking sonosub Posted Image

I have plenty of space, I will be using it in a 16'x16' room. I like the SBB4 and Adire Alighnment designs of that whitepaper. I would prefer to use either of those over the EBS design due to the hight (I don't really want the sub standing higher than the window pane Posted Image).

Is there an advantage to having it downfiring, other than protecting the driver/ports and leaving a smaller footprint? How much effect does mounting it downward have on driver sag?

I hate to sound like a shmuck, but the Dayton driver (cone/basket/terminals) look more quality than the Adire's. Comments?

Would the 250W amp I'm looking at be enough to drive the Tempest well?

What do you mean by reworking it for a single port to save money? I have the time to work on it, so I don't mind putting in the extra effort to adhere to one of those designs with two ports. Also, where would be a good place to purchase the necessary port materials?

Thanks a lot!

#7 of 25 OFFLINE   Dustin B

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Posted December 15 2003 - 04:21 PM

From a sound point there is no difference between down or front firing. Only issue with downfiring is if the driver sags too much. Tempest, Shiva and Dayton DVC12 are all designed for down or front firing.

Looks mean very little when it comes to drivers. The stamped steel basket was a cost saving measure, but it's plenty strong enough and doesn't hinder performance any. The rest of the components are all on par with the Dayton Titanic.

Shiva can displace 1.55L, the Dayton can do 1.89L and the Tempest can do 2.55L.

250W is oodles of power for the Tempest in a large vented enclosure.

The one thing I'm not keen on with the Adire or SBB4 allignment is the use of two 3" flared ports, I don't think this is enough porting. Instead of buying flared port kits you could use a port made out of 6" schedule 40 pvc pipe. Can pick that up fairly cheap at any irrigation shop.

The issue with the 6" port is the length to tune low can become too long for the box dimensions. However you can solve this by tuning the sub a little higher and modifing the dimensions. You can use the free version of LspCAD available on Adire's website to do the calculations. The white paper allignments are solid recommendations but there is little harm in straying from them a little. 190-240L tuned to 18-20hz will still make an excellent sub.

As for dimensions change them all you want, just keep the net internal volume the same and the box well braced.
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#8 of 25 OFFLINE   Mattak

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Posted December 15 2003 - 04:35 PM

So hard to decide :|

Doh, I just checked out adire's site. The tempest would be a little over $160 shipped, and they don't take discover card (which is all I carry at the moment). That sorta puts a damper on the tempest, or are there other outlets for it?

-Matt

#9 of 25 OFFLINE   TanT

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Posted December 15 2003 - 05:05 PM

Actually, the Tempest is onsale for $125 shipped and they take discover card too Posted Image

Look here http://www.acoustic-....re_15_tempest/

#10 of 25 OFFLINE   Mattak

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Posted December 15 2003 - 05:28 PM

Hmm, that's excellent as far as price goes.

So, can anyone convince me NOT to buy this? And is acoustic-visions.com a reputible seller?

Thanks!

#11 of 25 OFFLINE   TanT

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Posted December 15 2003 - 05:36 PM

I've just ordered one today and it was shipped within a few hours. It's due to arrive any minute now Posted Image

I think their service is first class. I am sure many members here would think the same of them.

Kyle Richardson (Acoustic-Visions owner) is a regular member here also.

Oh, I forgot to mention it was Adire recommended me to Acoustic-Visions to purchase the driver.

#12 of 25 OFFLINE   kehi

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Posted December 15 2003 - 05:53 PM

Just bought my Shiva from Acoustic-visions yesterday Posted Image

#13 of 25 OFFLINE   Aaron Howell

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Posted December 16 2003 - 03:06 AM

FYI, MCM still has their 250watt amp for $100 shipped and their 350 watt amp with remote control for $140 shipped.

#14 of 25 OFFLINE   Mattak

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Posted December 16 2003 - 03:39 PM

Well, I ordered everything this morning. Looks like I will need another sheet of MDF as well, though Posted Image

I went ahead and picked up a couple 4" flared ports, too. I know I said I didn't care too much about appearances, but I think it was worth it to get premade ports over trying to rig something up myself that might not seal as easily/nicely.

I think I'll go with one of the Adire vented box applications, most likely either the SBB4 or Adire Alignment, unless anyone else has any recommendations on something else.

The Adire Alignment application calls for two 3" ports, although I picked up 4". Dustin B above suggested a single 6" port instead. The area of two 4" ports is near the area of a single 6". If I decide to go with the Adire Alignment box, what effect will using 4" instead of 3" ports have? How will I tune the 4" ports to a desireable frequency?



Thanks!
Matt

#15 of 25 OFFLINE   Dustin B

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Posted December 16 2003 - 04:47 PM

It's the length of the ports that determine the tune. Unless you get some extra couplers and center tubing for the ports the lowest you can tune a 214L box with a pair of full length Aeroport 4" flared port kits is 19hz.

If you up the box volume up to 240L then the full length port kits will tune it to 18hz.
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#16 of 25 OFFLINE   Mattak

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Posted December 16 2003 - 05:24 PM

Is the 214L enclosure (adire alignment) what you would recommend? The design paper says it's 214L tuned to 15.4Hz with the 3" ports.

#17 of 25 OFFLINE   Wayne Ernst

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Posted December 17 2003 - 12:33 AM

Aaron,

Could you provide us with a link to MCM? I want to get more details on those amps they have for sale. Thanks.
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#18 of 25 OFFLINE   Dustin B

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Posted December 17 2003 - 01:08 AM

The wider or the greater the number of ports the longer they will have to be to tune to the same frequency. The reverse relationship is that the larger the enclosure the short a port will have to be to tune to the same frequency.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is that a full length port kit is 18" long and the 4" kits flange is 7.25" in diameter. The other rule of thumb is you should have at least a port width between the end of a port and the next closest surface. So 4" port kits won't fit in the standard Adire allignment box design.

There is a reasonable amount of fudge factor in sub design. So anywhere between 170 and 340 litre enclosure will work with the Tempest. And anywhere between a 16 and 20hz tune would work fine as well. All you really have to do is make sure your port length gets your net enclosure volume inside that tuning window and that those ports will fit in the enclosure.
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#19 of 25 OFFLINE   Aaron Howell

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Posted December 17 2003 - 01:40 AM

Wayne,
250 Watt $100
http://mcm.newark.co....sp?id=50-6281A

250 Watt $140
http://mcm.newark.co....jsp?id=50-6282

MCM has free shipping on orders over $100 til the Jan 5th, 2004.

#20 of 25 OFFLINE   Mattak

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Posted December 17 2003 - 06:02 AM

Dustin B, could you explain or point me to a good reference on calculating the proper values for box volume, port length/diameter, etc?

The SBB4 design calls for two 4" ports, so I would be all set if I went with that design, right? What about using the base dimensions of the SBB4 box to accomodate the 4" ports but possibly extending the hight of the box to raise the volume?

I'd like to make it decent for both music and movies.

Thanks for all the help Posted Image