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Star Wars Ep 2 and Dolby Digital EX


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#1 of 16 OFFLINE   Aaron_H

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Posted December 04 2003 - 09:22 AM

Hi,

Just got my home theater system set up and was testing the 6.1 surround. On my YAMAHA receiver, it has icons to show what speakers are being used (FRNT L & R, FRNT CTR, REAR L & R, AND REAR CTR).

When I watch the LOTR: Two Towers DVD it shows up as all 6.1 channels being used (all the icons light up). On the Star Wars Ep 2 DVD, I'm watching the Dolby Digital 5.1 EX and the REAR CTR speaker icon DOES NOT light up. It does say in my receiver's manual, that not all DVDs are flagged for the extra REAR CTR channel (6.1). I did have to manually select the Dolby Digital EX option on my receiver, because the AUTO didn't detect it.

Anyway, my question: Is it possible the REAR CTR speaker is working but the icon just isn't lighting up because the DVD may not be flagged?

Also, if a movie is not encoded with 6.1, does that mean when the movie plays at 5.1, the REAR CTR speaker will have no sound at all?

I hope this makes sense. Posted Image If not, let me know, and I'll be happy to ramble some more!

#2 of 16 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted December 04 2003 - 09:26 AM

DD 5.1 EX is not a 6.1 format. It is a 5.1 format, where the rear center channel is extracted by a sort of "post-processing". Therefore, if you leave the DD EX decoding engaged, it will process any DD 5.1 track, regardless of whether that track was specifically encoded for EX. Some people like the results; some don't (and it varies from title to title).

[quote] Is it possible the REAR CTR speaker is working but the icon just isn't lighting up because the DVD may not be flagged? [quote]
Very possible. And the easiest way to confirm it is to get very close to the speaker during playback (or shut down all the other speakers in the system).

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#3 of 16 OFFLINE   Aaron_H

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Posted December 04 2003 - 09:33 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. So, if I put in a regular 5.1 (no EX) DVD and played it, would sound come out the rear ctr speaker (assuming I didn't have EX decoding on)? thanks,

#4 of 16 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted December 04 2003 - 09:41 AM

[quote] So, if I put in a regular 5.1 (no EX) DVD and played it, would sound come out the rear ctr speaker (assuming I didn't have EX decoding on)? [quote]
The rear center should be silent in that scenario, unless Yamaha has done something different. Here again, the best way to know how the receiver behaves is to try it.

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#5 of 16 OFFLINE   JamesHl

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Posted December 04 2003 - 09:41 AM

Nope. Aren't properly flagged dd ex discs a recent thing? There was some sort of bug they had to work out, as I recall.

#6 of 16 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted December 04 2003 - 10:48 AM

You can always just apply the EX decoding manually. If it is LOTR in DTS, then the 6th channel is discrete and will light up. Different receiver do it different ways, I am unfamiliar with yamaha, but my marantz lights up ONLY the discrete channels, whether it be 2.0, 2.1, whatever. So EX flagged discs will go into 6.1 just fine, the rear back doesn't light up since it's not discrete. Other 5.1 discs I hit the ex button manually, still no light. ES-discrete DTS titles, however, DO light up, since there's a discrete channel there. Another thing is that this is regardless to the number of speakers i have set up. For instance now i have just a 2-channel setup, and using a DTS music disc, it displays all 5.1 lights(those are the channels coming in), even though it's being downmixed to 2.1. Hopefully that makes sense. It's also VERy easy to tell what speakers are on by putting your ear next to them.

#7 of 16 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted December 04 2003 - 11:10 AM

[quote] If it is LOTR in DTS, then the 6th channel is discrete and will light up. [quote]
Only if the receiver has DTS ES Discrete capabilities. Not all of them do.

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#8 of 16 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 04 2003 - 11:20 AM

My previous receiver was ES matrix only, but the rear center always lit up with ES discrete material. Matrix only receivers will still decode discrete material. Which track are you using for LOTR:TT? Is this the EE or theatrical version? EP2 is one of the discs that was improperly flagged, I believe.
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#9 of 16 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted December 04 2003 - 07:17 PM

I am moving this to software. I know there is an EX/ES dvd listing over there and the question as to the possible incorrect flagging should get an answer.
Click and enter " T H E . H O L O D E C K "
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#10 of 16 OFFLINE   CraigF

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Posted December 04 2003 - 08:13 PM

IME, everything everybody said here is correct. I have an HK, and it doesn't detect the EX flag for Episode 2 properly, but it does for some other recent discs, Finding Nemo and Hulk for example. Different receivers behave differently, and as people say, put your ear to the speaker to see of it's getting any audio. For instance, my receiver has a bug (several actually, but...). It has "icons within icons": it shows the speakers that *should* be getting audio, and the ones that are actually getting audio from the data stream. Sometimes it does not show a certain speaker as getting audio, when in fact it obviously is, by ear...so the ear to the speaker is your best test and answer.

#11 of 16 OFFLINE   GregK

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Posted December 05 2003 - 03:19 AM

Yep. This is how the Yamaha line (at least last year's models) works. On my RX-V2300, only sources that are flagged as DD EX or DTS ES will show the center back channel icon on the receiver's display screen. But as you have noted, the receiver can be manually switched over to true ES/EX decoding, even though the icon doesn't light up. I find this icon nice, as when the Yamaha is in the manual EX/ES mode, it will *not* automatically switch over to DTS-ES discrete. So with the Yamaha in manual EX/ES, it's possible to listen to a DTS 6.1 ES-discrete track in ES-matrix if one is not careful. A minor flaw, but an important one to know for us home theater geeks. :b

#12 of 16 OFFLINE   Chris_Eff

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Posted December 05 2003 - 03:27 AM

I have the yamie 1400 if a dvd is flagged (Just watched POTC worked fine) it will light up the sixth speaker regardless of matrix or descrete or DD vs DTS. However I do not think it will light up if I turn EX on manually. Ep 2 is not flagged but LOTR TT is flaged both theatrical and EE. I leave my receiver on auto unless the DVD cover says EX or I found the movie in a list of known EX movies. Suprisingly Pirates only says 5.1 on the cover yet it is flagged for matix DD-EX or DTS-ES. Stick with flags and lists such as the one on the forum.
Did you get the memo on that?

#13 of 16 OFFLINE   Steve Y

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Posted December 05 2003 - 06:59 AM

I have a Sony DE-1075 (supports 6.1 ES discrete) - it's about three or four years old. I was under the assumption that it played DD EX "matrixed" titles as well, but it would NOT recognize the DDEX soundtracks like the *first* tin release of T2, and a few others I can't recall. They were among the first released. It processed them instead as regular DD 5.1. I figured the receiver was made before full support of the format.

When I played recent discs like Finding Nemo and LOTR:TT, to my surprise the "6.1" lit up on the receiver and the "phantom" matrixed speakers were illuminated in the receiver's built in diagram. Voila! Matrixed DD-EX.

So this seems most certainly a flagging problem, perhaps affecting only some receivers, but certainly fixed on many newer discs.

~s

#14 of 16 OFFLINE   sandy f

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Posted December 20 2003 - 02:19 AM

im well pleased i found this place, this is the exat same question i had about my new system, so if im right only newer DVDs will light up/activate the dolby digital EX whereas on older DVDs i need to activate it myself ??? yeah ok so my next question is what is the point of this EX if all it does is mix the 2 rear channels into one, if i turn it on for a DVD that is not EX encoded whats the difference between one that is EX encoded ???? i can see the difference in DTS as thats a dedicated channel but theres not many of them arround just now

#15 of 16 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted December 20 2003 - 02:40 AM

[quote] ok so my next question is what is the point of this EX if all it does is mix the 2 rear channels into one, if i turn it on for a DVD that is not EX encoded whats the difference between one that is EX encoded ???? [quote] These questions (and many others) are expressly addressed in the HTF Beginner's Primer and FAQ. The main link is in my signature, but here's the section you want:

http://www.hometheat....335#post828335

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#16 of 16 OFFLINE   sandy f

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Posted December 20 2003 - 10:04 AM

nice one, pretty much explains everything thanks michael




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