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Losing Isolated Scores on SEs


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29 replies to this topic

#1 of 30 OFFLINE   Randy A Salas

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Posted November 25 2003 - 02:09 PM

Has anyone else noticed that we sometimes lose alternate audio tracks with isolated scores when a DVD is re-released as a special edition? It has happened most recently with the Collector's Edition of The Dark Crystal and with the upcoming release of Alien.

Here's a list I've compiled of movies with which this has occurred. The original fewer-features DVD has an isolated score while the re-released special edition does not:

Alien (two score tracks dropped)
Amadeus
The Dark Crystal
The Mummy
Patch Adams
Space Jam

Any others I've missed (excluding Superbits, which generally drop all extras)?
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#2 of 30 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted November 26 2003 - 05:04 AM

Well, Space Jam didn't have the movie on the previous version Posted Image
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#3 of 30 OFFLINE   Steve Christou

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Posted November 26 2003 - 05:17 AM

I'm pretty sure The Mummy didn't have an isolated score. Maybe the cd soundtrack was playing on one of the menus?

Dave hören... auf, wille stoppen sie Dave... stoppen sie Dave... Mein gehirn geht... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin ängstlich Dave... Guter Nachmittag. Ich bin ein HAL 9000 computer. Ich wurde funktionsfähig am HAL-Betrieb in Urbana, Illinois auf January 12 1992.


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#4 of 30 OFFLINE   Eric Paddon

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Posted November 26 2003 - 05:21 AM

It was an isolated score on the main menu.

#5 of 30 OFFLINE   Randy A Salas

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Posted November 26 2003 - 05:36 AM

Quote:
It was an isolated score on the main menu.

Jerry Goldsmith's Mummy score is under the Languages menu of the original DVD. If you just let it sit on that screen, the score plays in its entirety in full DD 5.1 audio. It's actually quite an incredible hidden feature (probably a mistake by Universal; it was announced but not listed or properly presented on the DVD). It runs about 90 minutes, and there is no way to fast forward through it or navigate it in any other way.
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#6 of 30 OFFLINE   oscar_merkx

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Posted November 26 2003 - 07:20 AM

sounds like I will need to get Alien dvd after all.

Thanks for the tip

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#7 of 30 OFFLINE   Steve Christou

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Posted November 26 2003 - 08:16 AM

90mins of music! Thanks for the tip I thought it'd just be the cd soundtrack which I already have, must remember to check it out.

Dave hören... auf, wille stoppen sie Dave... stoppen sie Dave... Mein gehirn geht... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin ängstlich Dave... Guter Nachmittag. Ich bin ein HAL 9000 computer. Ich wurde funktionsfähig am HAL-Betrieb in Urbana, Illinois auf January 12 1992.


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#8 of 30 OFFLINE   Neil S. Bulk

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Posted November 26 2003 - 09:00 AM

It's the complete score to The Mummy. I think it even includes source music. Excellent special feature!

Neil

#9 of 30 OFFLINE   Rob Gillespie

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Posted November 26 2003 - 09:06 AM

The reason we don't get more isolated scores is simply because the studios fear losing revenue from soundtrack CDs.
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#10 of 30 OFFLINE   Randy A Salas

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Posted November 26 2003 - 09:27 AM

Quote:
The reason we don't get more isolated scores is simply because the studios fear losing revenue from soundtrack CDs.


But this thread isn't about that. It's about what isolated scores were on an earlier version of a DVD and then dropped for subsequent releases.

Besides, isolated scores continue to come out on DVD. Soundtrack.net lists more than 125. And CD revenue isn't the likely cuplrit: The Blade II DVD from New Line (part of Time Warner) includes an isolated score, but the soundtrack (score) CD was released by Varese Sarabande (part of Universal Music Group). New Line has no major financial interest in how that CD sells; it merely licensed the music to Varese.
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#11 of 30 OFFLINE   Matt_P

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Posted November 26 2003 - 10:22 AM

It's usually the same reason why Criterion DVDs go out of print: Studios have the rights to include an isolated score for only that specific release, or a certain period of time, and since music rights are expensive to maintain, they usually don't renew such rights for a later release. Also, there is a general fear of including isolated scores at all, due to the frequency that bootleg score albums are sourced from the isolated score tracks, and the composers themselves lose soundtrack revenues.

It's a shame isolated scores are rarely seen anymore. Being a big film score fan, it's probably my favorite feature, especially when it's paired with a composer commentary. Goldenthal's Final Fantasy is one of my favs.

BTW, that Mummy isolated track is great! IMHO, some of Goldsmith's best stuff was not included on the soundtrack album, and can be heard in full 5.1 on the DVD, including source cues! Bliss.

#12 of 30 OFFLINE   PaulP

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Posted November 26 2003 - 10:37 AM

At least we can count on Danny Elfman. Too bad there were no isolated scores on The Hulk or Spider-Man, but there were on Planet of the Apes and Red Dragon... Hopefully Big Fish will also feature one.

I think there should be more isolated scores! If a score wins an Oscar, that should make it automatic.

#13 of 30 OFFLINE   Steve Christou

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Posted November 26 2003 - 12:03 PM

Isolated scores are becoming scarcer, one of the things that attracted me to to DVD years ago was that they also had isolated music tracks. I naively thought then that virtually every movie released on dvd will have this feature, and I got really excited!
Oh well, out of nearly 800 dvds in my collection, 41 have a music only track.
Including 5 isolated scores from Jerry Goldsmith, 3 from John Williams, 5 from Danny Elfman, 2 from James Horner, 1 from Bernard Herrmann and 1 from Ennio Morricone.

Dave hören... auf, wille stoppen sie Dave... stoppen sie Dave... Mein gehirn geht... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin ängstlich Dave... Guter Nachmittag. Ich bin ein HAL 9000 computer. Ich wurde funktionsfähig am HAL-Betrieb in Urbana, Illinois auf January 12 1992.


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#14 of 30 OFFLINE   Randy A Salas

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Posted November 26 2003 - 01:04 PM

That's it exactly, Matt.
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#15 of 30 OFFLINE   jonathan_little

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Posted November 26 2003 - 02:16 PM

Quote:
It's usually the same reason why Criterion DVDs go out of print: Studios have the rights to include an isolated score for only that specific release, or a certain period of time, and since music rights are expensive to maintain, they usually don't renew such rights for a later release. Also, there is a general fear of including isolated scores at all, due to the frequency that bootleg score albums are sourced from the isolated score tracks, and the composers themselves lose soundtrack revenues.

The record labels and unionized musicians whose contracts require re-use fees to be paid for score album releases certainly lose money because of bootlegs. Composers on the other hand, from what I've heard, typically get very little from CD album sales anyway and probably aren't losing as much as the other people involved with the music.

I've also heard an argument that a DVD isolated score could be viewed as a separate "phonorecord" release, requiring new usage fees be paid to the orchestra as if it was being released on CD. I do not know if this is a valid argument or not, but perhaps just the idea of it is enough for some studios to forget isolated scores. Of course, if all scores were recorded somewhere (e.g. Europe) without those pesky AFM folks, we'd be all set. Posted Image

I don't know how difficult score recording music rights are to maintain. Rights for pop songs and other pieces of source music are perhaps difficult and/or expensive to keep up with, but score recordings and the score itself are usually owned by the studio. I have CDs that contain decades old score recordings that the studio apparently still owns the rights to, while the films that the scores accompany have apparently fallen into the public domain. I doubt that the studios went through any extra effort to protect the rights of these score recordings while letting the rights to the films expire. Instead, I assume that copyrights for music recordings persist longer than those for films.

#16 of 30 OFFLINE   Marko Berg

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Posted November 27 2003 - 12:06 AM

The original two-disc edition of Patton from Fox had an isolated score by Jerry Goldsmith. This OOP edition was replaced by a one-disc release--similar to what happened with Fight Club, The Abyss, Castaway, Planet of the Apes (the Tim Burton version) etc. However, unlike those discs, Patton has not been re-packaged and re-released.

Hopefully Fox will re-release the two-disc edition in the near future. I won't buy the single-disc release, but the two-disc edition would be an automatic purchase (if only I could find one).

#17 of 30 OFFLINE   oscar_merkx

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Posted November 27 2003 - 03:02 AM

Steve

which dvds are you talking about with Bernard Hermann & Ennio Morricone ?

Cheers

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#18 of 30 OFFLINE   Steve Christou

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Posted November 27 2003 - 04:18 AM

That's my little secret Oscar... oh alright, Herrmann's isolated score is on the 'North by Northwest' dvd, and Morricone's is the very rare region 8 dvd of 'Good the Bad and the Ugly'... no I made that bit up, Morricone's is on 'John Carpenter's The Thing', not really an isolated score but the CD soundtrack which is an alternate track on the 80min documentary.

Patton also had the CD soundtrack on an alternate track during the documentary, not isolated on the film itself.

Dave hören... auf, wille stoppen sie Dave... stoppen sie Dave... Mein gehirn geht... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin gefühl es... Ich bin ängstlich Dave... Guter Nachmittag. Ich bin ein HAL 9000 computer. Ich wurde funktionsfähig am HAL-Betrieb in Urbana, Illinois auf January 12 1992.


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#19 of 30 OFFLINE   Adam_WM

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Posted November 27 2003 - 05:04 AM

Honestly, it makes no difference to me. I don't have enough time to watch the movie and the 1 - 4 commentaries, let alone a track of music.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE SOUNDTRACKS (I have over 250 movie soundtracks).
.

 


#20 of 30 OFFLINE   oscar_merkx

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Posted November 27 2003 - 09:08 AM

Thanks Steve for the answer

Lucky that I have both dvds and will give them a spin later tonight.

The alien music track is very haunting
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