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What are these Sony "V" series ES receivers???


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23 replies to this topic

#1 of 24 OFFLINE   RolandM

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Posted November 20 2003 - 05:01 PM

I was recently considering a purchase of a new HT receiver for the future and was looking into some Sony models, particularly the ES ones (don't worry I wouldn't touch the DE series either guys!)...

I also noticed some of the DB series from a few years back that I liked as well...

Anyhow my question is regarding what I call the "V" series ES receivers... Like the STR-V555ES V444ES, etc.

When were these made (what model year are they)? Are they before or after the DA1/2/4/7 ES? What I know so far is that the DA1/2 ES were rebadged DB models for NA. The DA3/5 ES were the year before the 1/2/4/7ES, correct?

I'm looking at getting either a DB930,DB940,DA2ES or DA4ES. I realise the price difference in these receivers, by the way. I also know they are all pretty much used market or NOS finds if you want to get one.

I spent a long time in the Crutchfield "archives" looking at these models as well as downloading the manuals. However I can't find much on these V series models and I have no clue how they compare and what the differences are or what year/series they belong. They seem kinda odd! I've also seen models like the DA50ES which I think pre-dates the DA3 and DA5?

I would appreciate it if anyone has the time to help me out with this and any recommendations you might have. Posted Image

Roland M.

PS: From what I've read here and heard about the DAx000ES receivers I don't really like them too much, plus the silver colour would stick out like a sore thumb!

#2 of 24 OFFLINE   Stelios

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Posted November 21 2003 - 12:27 AM

RolandM Hi

<(don't worry I wouldn't touch the DE series either guys!)...>

I am really puzzled by this commend. How many guys had, really had one, of the DE series that are not happy? 2,5,50 100? How many? The reason I am asking this,is that I have 2 friends of mine, one has the STR-DE695 and the other the DE495 and both are extremely happy with treir units (for the price the paid ofcourse).I went and listened to the DE695 model and I must say I was very impressed.
Usually if one or two guys had a bad experience, they post nasty remarks about the particular model, especially if the problem lies with support. You never hear the other 100 guys that are happy with their units.


Stelios
I hope for nothing! I fear nothing! I am free! (Kazantzakis)

#3 of 24 OFFLINE   Richard_B

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Posted November 21 2003 - 12:42 AM

My first receiver was a DE model. It served me well. Right now I have a DB model 840 and I honestly can't complain about it for the price I paid. I am now looking to replace this unit with a more feature filled unit and will most likely get the new Yamaha receiver 2400 or 1400.
Richard

#4 of 24 OFFLINE   AaronBatiuk

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Posted November 21 2003 - 02:15 AM

Roland,
The V555ES (et all) directly preceeded the DA3ES/DA5ES models. They have a five channel amp, and 5.1 channel pre-amp outputs, limiting you to a 5.1 setup. Curiously, you can use a surround-back speaker with them if you give up your front center speaker. Kind of a useless feature I think.

For genuine compatibility with extended surround (DD-EX, dts-ES), get a 3ES or newer, as these have 7.1 channel pre-amp outputs. The 3ES doesn't decode dts-ES discrete, although it can use its matrix decoder on those soundtracks for compatibility. The 5ES and the newer models (4ES, 7ES, and the current models) are all fully compatible with all extended surround formats. Of those, only the 5ES cannot decode dts 96/24.

FYI, user manuals in pdf format can be downloaded directly from Sony at the Sony IQ Reference Library.

#5 of 24 OFFLINE   Andrew Pierce

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Posted November 21 2003 - 02:26 AM

I had a DE and while it was egonomically appealing, feature-packed and inexpensive, the amps left a LOT to be desired. Weak, thin and compressed even compared to some of the other low end integrated units from, say Yamaha, Denon, HK and the usual suspects. And I was SHOCKED at the level of improvement in the amps going to my DA4ES. So I guess chalk one up in the 'guy who is down on his Sony DE' column.

#6 of 24 OFFLINE   Stelios

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Posted November 21 2003 - 02:38 AM

AaronBatiuk Hi



These are the specs for the TRV-DE695:

"Amplifier Section
• Black Finish A/V Receiver
• 6 Channel Power Rating: 100
Watts Per Channel x 6 (8
ohms 1 kHz, THD 0.7%)
• Stereo Power Rating: 100
Watts Per Channel x 2 (8
ohms 20 Hz-20 kHz, THD
.09%)
Dolby® Digital, Dolby®
Digital EX, dts®, 96k/24 bitdts
ES®, Dolby® Pro Logic®
II Decoding
• A & B / A or B Speaker Switch
Surround Back Output for 6.1
Channel Audio
• 32-bit Dolby®Digital, Dolby®
Pro Logic® and dts® decoder
• 32-bit DSP with 11 Acoustic"

So it appears that the receiver is a 6 channel amplifier. 5 surround and 1 sub-woofer. Mind you most of the DVDs are 5:1 in any case.
and thanks Richard_B for putting some good words for the DE models.


Stelios
I hope for nothing! I fear nothing! I am free! (Kazantzakis)

#7 of 24 OFFLINE   ChrisLazarko

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Posted November 21 2003 - 03:27 AM

I had a Sony DE reciever and it was an awful piece of junk I think. I don't personally like the Sony audio department no matter what they sell, I just don't buy it with confidence. Also one thing that really got to me was when Sony wouldn't let Suond & Vision do a test of how much power the amplifier could deliver... makes me sound unsure of how good they really are at this point.

#8 of 24 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted November 21 2003 - 04:09 AM

Quote:
I went and listened to the DE695 model and I must say I was very impressed.

What is your frame of reference though? Go listen to other manufacturer's offerings in this price range and hear for yourself. Just because your friends are happy doesn't mean they are audiophiles (not that anyone here claimed to be).

HERE is your most telling spec, right from your own post:

Quote:
6 Channel Power Rating: 100 Watts Per Channel x 6 (8 ohms 1 kHz, THD 0.7%)

ANY time I see a recever rated at 1kHz, I KNOW that the amp section is WEAK. EVEN MORE of a reason for me to recommend you pass on this receiver.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#9 of 24 OFFLINE   EdNichols

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Posted November 21 2003 - 04:40 AM

If it said 100 watts per channel x 6 (8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 Khz) then that would be more like it.

#10 of 24 OFFLINE   Stelios

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Posted November 21 2003 - 07:00 AM

Quote:
If it said 100 watts per channel x 6 (8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 Khz) then that would be more like it.


Ok In a room 3.5m x 3.6m at 21:30 with 2 kids sleeping, what power do you normaly push with your home theater?

Stelios
I hope for nothing! I fear nothing! I am free! (Kazantzakis)

#11 of 24 OFFLINE   JamesCB

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Posted November 21 2003 - 08:24 AM

Quote:
So it appears that the receiver is a 6 channel amplifier. 5 surround and 1 sub-woofer.


I don't think so. 3 in front and 3 in back. I've never seen a rec'r with a sub amp built in.

Just some freindly nit-picking, Stelios.

#12 of 24 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted November 21 2003 - 11:02 AM

Quote:
Ok In a room 3.5m x 3.6m at 21:30 with 2 kids sleeping, what power do you normaly push with your home theater?

It's your money. When you do turn it up, just make sure you turn it down when you hear distortion before you blow tweeters.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#13 of 24 OFFLINE   Robert Cowan

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Posted November 21 2003 - 11:16 AM

you should ask, "how loud do you NEED to turn it up before it sounds ok". with crappy power, you need to give it MUCH more volume to sound reasonably good. with 1,000 watts, it would sound very nice at quiet levels.

#14 of 24 OFFLINE   RolandM

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Posted November 22 2003 - 11:33 AM

I don't think so. 3 in front and 3 in back. I've never seen a rec'r with a sub amp built in.


Actually there are some receivers you can do this with. Posted Image I have a Technics SA-AX920 has a built in sub amp as its 6th channel. Also I'm pretty sure on some of the Kenwood Soverign receivers you can set the rear surround channel to be the sub amp instead.

But you are correct the receiver in question (and pretty much any receiver out there) it would be 3 front/3 rear.

#15 of 24 OFFLINE   RolandM

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Posted November 22 2003 - 11:42 AM

Well thanks for the replies this far guys. I really didn't mean for it to go OT and start and argument about the DE receivers... I would never buy one personally and I have a lot of different Sony gear in my house (including a DE receiver that my sister has).

I remember the DEs from back a few years ago with their pure-hiss "feature" (as I like to call it) where hiss was very apparent in the rear and centre channels. I dunno if this is a problem in the newer DEs but all the reviews and experiences I've read about DEs in general is the same. They are not very reliable and not very good quality. These are two attributes no one wants in a receiver if you ask me. Overrated is another term that often comes up in regards to the DE series. Also overpriced. You can get better gear for similar money, no doubt.

All I said was personally I'm not buying a DE receiver. NO WAY! I do want a Sony so the only way to go is ES for a receiver at least. May be a little expensive (compared to most DEs) but definitely worth it, in my and most people's view.

Anyhow back to the discussion of the V series ES receivers. Aaron, thanks for the link on the manuals and the info. I already knew about the IQ centre for the manuals but I still didn't know where the V models fit in, in terms of age and I didn't want to download even more manuals since my desktop already had like 10 pdfs on it comparing other models! Posted Image

Also I did notice that back surround/centre feature thing which I also think is useless--what's the point of it Posted Image I guess if you could set the pre-out to BACK-SURROUND instead of CENTRE for that channel but keep using the receivers built in amp for the centre speaker it would make some sense though.

#16 of 24 OFFLINE   Bart

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Posted November 22 2003 - 04:43 PM

Roland, this is just my quick two cents. I have a Sony DB930 receiver and I love it. I did a significant amount of research on this model before I bought it a couple of years back and the two main complaints people had at the time were the remote commander and the owner's manual (both can be annoying at times). The gist of the reviews is that the DB930 model shares components with the higher-end Sony ES line, but with the price and appearance of Sony's less expensive models. I couldn't be happier with mine, it sounds great with my new Dahlquist speaker package and it has many nice features I like. But as some have already pointed out, the older receivers like the DB930 are not compatible with 6.1 formats. It's too bad Sony no longer sells the DB receiver line.

Bart

#17 of 24 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted November 22 2003 - 08:02 PM

DBs became the lower end ESs (DA1, DA2) because it didn't make sense for them to have THREE receiver categories.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#18 of 24 OFFLINE   RolandM

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Posted November 23 2003 - 07:21 AM

Yeah the only thing is that the DA1ES and DA2ES can't use the 2-way remote Posted Image

The DB930/940 come with the 2-way and can use it. I think the DB840 can use the 2-way as well, but I'm not 100% sure about that.

I don't think the DB1070 can use the two way either Posted Image

The DA4ES can use the 2-way though correct? Even though it doesn't come with a 2-way remote?

I know most people hate the 2-ways but I kinda like it. It is nice because it can display titles from a compatible Sony CD changer, right on the remote (in addition to other info).

How much do you guys think a used DA2ES should go for?

#19 of 24 OFFLINE   Andrew Pierce

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Posted November 24 2003 - 02:18 AM

I had a DE and while it was egonomically appealing, feature-packed and inexpensive, the amps left a LOT to be desired. Weak, thin and compressed even compared to some of the other low end integrated units from, say Yamaha, Denon, HK and the usual suspects. And I was SHOCKED at the level of improvement in the amps going to my DA4ES. So I guess chalk one up in the 'guy who is down on his Sony DE' column.

#20 of 24 OFFLINE   AaronBatiuk

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Posted November 24 2003 - 02:37 AM

Quote:
The DA4ES can use the 2-way though correct? Even though it doesn't come with a 2-way remote?

I know most people hate the 2-ways but I kinda like it. It is nice because it can display titles from a compatible Sony CD changer, right on the remote (in addition to other info).
Correct; I have a 4ES and I use a 2-way remote with it (RM-TP504 which originally came with the V555ES). I also love being able to see the disc and track numbers and names on the display, as well as being able to pick disc from a list of names, instead of having to remember the disc numbers of 400 CD's.


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