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Major Fault in many dvd-a players


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#1 of 4 OFFLINE   peter m. wilson

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Posted November 06 2003 - 01:22 AM

HI, This could be an interesting article, particularly for readers who have chosen a single format player namely dvd-a or perhaps a combi. This issue was experienced by myself and also mentioned by a HT installer and ISF'r. A couple of dvd-a producers such as DTS abd HI put all available formats on the opening page of their DVD-a's so access to the dd5.1 or dts track is easily done, you just scroll down to the desired format. However most do not. If you ave both a dvd-a and an sacd player with an optical or coax connection access to those tracks is no proplem as you simply put the dvd-a in the sacd player and it immediately defaults to dd5.1 or dts screen because it does not play dvd-a. Howerver many dvd-a players (whether you go to groups or scroll through audio will not give you access to these formats. Panasonic and JVC are just 2 such manufacturers. It would be interesting to find out which do and which don't so a poll might be in order. When I've posted this elsewhere I've recieved the comment "If you have the best why would you want to access those formats" My response is because I paid for the entire disc and want access to all formats without having to buy a second machine. If you feel that this is an interesting enough subject (which exposes a limitation of many dvd-a machines) I'd love to see an article on it. regards, Peter m.
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#2 of 4 OFFLINE   Felix Martinez

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Posted November 09 2003 - 09:13 AM

[quote] If you feel that this is an interesting enough subject (which exposes a limitation of many dvd-a machines) I'd love to see an article on it. [quote]
My understanding is that the ability to easily access a disc's compressed DD and DTS 5.1 tracks is determined by the authoring of the software, which allows the hardware to jump between the hi-res audio content in the AUDIO_TS folder and the DVD-V compatible audio (ie. DD and DTS 5.1 tracks - as well as some PCM audio) residing in the VIDEO_TS folder on the disc.

As you observed, the ability for your DVD-A player to go between the hi-res and non-hi-res material on a disc varies from label to label - and depends on how they author their software.

Most of the time, you can get around disc authoring that "locks out" a DVD-A player from the DVD-V compatible DD and DTS 5.1 tracks by browsing the placement of these tracks in their respective Groups via your remote. This is what I do for review purposes to compare the hi-res and compressed audio options. Other than that, I have no need or desire to play the compressed version of the hi-res audio.

Hope this helps!

Sincerely,

#3 of 4 OFFLINE   peter m. wilson

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Posted November 09 2003 - 11:20 AM

Hi Felix, Your entirely accurate regarding the ease or lack thereof that different dvd-a production houses create on their discs. DTS, for one, obviously want to promote their format generally. Since your vocation brings you in contact with many more dvd-a's than does mine out of curiosity you may notice that the jewel cases that catagorize the dd or dts portion of the disc as "for dvd-v players" rather than "for the dvd-v portion of your player", seem to be the toughest ones to access. Someone on another forum said that early on in the programming of a some players "Denon" might be one, a decision has to be made as to whether the player is to be used as a dvd-a player or a dvd-v player for audio access which affects access to non dvd-a traks. I have an sdi modded panny rp82 which I use with the HOLO3D vid scaler. It also does dvd-a but since I don't use it for that function it allows me to upsample redbooks to 88.2 which my Denon reciever regognizes. However had I programmed it as a dvd-a player I would have to turn the RE-MASTER (what the upsampling feature is called) off. Hopefully these disc and machine quirks will iron themselves out because it took me a while the other day to convince someone who had a dvd-a player that he was not listening to the mlp track because even though he was hearing the music in 5.1 it could not be the dvd-a portion of the disc because he only had the optical cable going from his player to his reciever and figured if he was getting 5.1 why should he spend the money for all those extra cables. and it was not an ilink Peter m. PS: I've read a couple of comments regarding the sacd version of Steely Dan's "Gaucho" vs the DTS disc that you mentioned a couple of issues ago in that, although a little more detailed, if you have the DTS version you probably don't need the sacd. If you plan to adress the sacd at all I'd be curious to know why, since their doing so well with 2 new dvd-a's as well as Fagan's (although Becker is all over it) dvd-a Kamakiriad, why a sudden switch to sacd.
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#4 of 4 OFFLINE   Felix Martinez

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Posted November 10 2003 - 03:54 AM

[quote] PS: I've read a couple of comments regarding the sacd version of Steely Dan's "Gaucho" vs the DTS disc that you mentioned a couple of issues ago in that, although a little more detailed, if you have the DTS version you probably don't need the sacd.
If you plan to adress the sacd at all I'd be curious to know why, since their doing so well with 2 new dvd-a's as well as Fagan's (although Becker is all over it) dvd-a Kamakiriad, why a sudden switch to sacd. [quote]

The new Gaucho 5.1 mix is different than the one on the DTS CD from several years ago. Elliot Scheiner has said that he now has a better grasp of mixing music in 5.1 and the new mix is the ideal one in his opinion (I have not heard the new mix yet). Also, the old DTS mix was done with tape transfers in 20-bit, and of course while DTS is an excellent compression codec, it is a lossy one. The new 5.1 mix was done in 96 kHz/24-bit PCM and was transcoded to DSD for the current SACD on sale now. The DVD-A version of Gaucho, using the same mix as the SACD, is scheduled for release in December by Universal and my understanding is that the 5.1 mix will be in 96/24 MLP (lossless compression). So the DVD-A will essentially be a bit-for-bit duplicate of the new Gaucho 5.1 master.

The Fagen and newer Steely Dan releases are on the Warner labels, and Warner does not do SACDs.

Cheers,




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