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My Quest For A pre/pro and Amp


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#1 of 88 OFFLINE   Allen Marshall

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Posted November 03 2003 - 09:49 PM

trying to make a good decision towards how many channels and future proofing.

should it be a reciever or pre amp and an amp?
I work on Film, Animation & Sound Design in downtown Chicago.
 

#2 of 88 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted November 04 2003 - 02:26 AM

Are you asking for a recommendation?

M.
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#3 of 88 OFFLINE   Mark All

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Posted November 04 2003 - 02:41 AM

The Yamaha RXV3300 at $699 from www.6ave.com seems like a heck of a bargain for an authorized Yamaha dealer.

It has 130 wpc for the standard six channels plus 25 wpc for the two front effects channels. It also has full pre-outs for adding amplification later. The next step up would be the Yamaha RX-Z1 which is still above $2500. You may be able to find it for less though.
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#4 of 88 OFFLINE   ChrisHeflen

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Posted November 04 2003 - 05:55 AM

You do know for $2500.00 you can get into seperates?!

#5 of 88 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted November 04 2003 - 08:01 AM

What exactly is 8.1?
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System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
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#6 of 88 OFFLINE   Mark All

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Posted November 04 2003 - 08:10 AM

Main left, center, main right, surround right, center back, surround left, front effects left, front effects right.

Plus subwoofer. Yamaha's speciality--works with their proprietary DSP.
Audio, ergo sum.

#7 of 88 OFFLINE   JeremySt

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Posted November 04 2003 - 08:36 AM

I would not eliminate other brands just because of Yamaha's "specialty" front effects channels. Since this thread seems to be asking for opinions, I'll give you mine. Don't buy Yamaha.

I am baised towards Denon, and in that price point, They have the AVR 4802R for $2000. Denon usually gets fantastic reviews, from the magazines and users alike. Other people seem to be fond of buying the $1000 AVR3803, and spending about $1000 on a seperate amp. You loose some of the features exclusive to the 4802R, but gain in sound performance. ( I personally have not tried it. I use a 3803 by itself.)

There are other brands that offer value, but because I dont have experience with any current models, I'll leave those opinions to other people.

#8 of 88 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted November 04 2003 - 11:03 AM

I have heard Yamaha's front effects and I was not impressed. Since it is proprietary, and used by nobody else, it also does not qualify as an 8.1 to me.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#9 of 88 OFFLINE   gregD

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Posted November 04 2003 - 11:11 AM

I would not eliminate other brands just because of Yamaha's "specialty" front effects channels.

Agreed... ditch the proprietary gimmicks and go for, say, a Rotel RSP-1066 prepro and an RMB-1075 power amp for $2500... or swap an RSX-1055 receiver for the 1066 and use its configurable internal amps to power rears in a 7.1 system.

Serious sound and build quality for $2500 or less.

Otherwise, flagship 7.1 receivers from Marantz, Pioneer, Denon.

#10 of 88 OFFLINE   Allen Marshall

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Posted November 04 2003 - 11:31 AM

So do some 6.1 recievers handle 8.1 or what? i dont understand how it works, why does my reciever have more plugs then normal, like 2 sets for main left and main right and 2 sets for rear left and rear right
I work on Film, Animation & Sound Design in downtown Chicago.
 

#11 of 88 OFFLINE   Allen Marshall

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Posted November 04 2003 - 11:32 AM

can i get a 6.1 reciever and then get an amp that will give me 8.1?????
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#12 of 88 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted November 04 2003 - 11:52 AM

Essentially, 8.1 does not exist, period. 6.1 is an acutal format (DTS-ES discrete and matrix, DD-EX), and 7.1 is a derivative of 6.1 with two rear centers instead of one. How big is your room? For the a large percentage of people, even 7.1 is overkill. You are right on in wanting more power, and you should not have a problem with that at the $2500 price point, and at that level, I'd also opt for separates.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#13 of 88 OFFLINE   ChrisLazarko

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Posted November 04 2003 - 12:21 PM

If you have $2500 to spend seperates is a good way but I think you might be able to go with just perhaps a recievers for around $1500 if that is what you are looking for.

A good flagship reciever without a battleship price would be the Harman/Kardon AVR-7200. It support 7.1 channel. Also, 8.1 does not exist, as well as 7.1. 6.1 is the closts format you will be able to get.

I think a 7.1 reciever is more than most need. Even if I had a room with an unlimited amount of space I don't think I would go with more than a 6.1 setup.

#14 of 88 OFFLINE   Mark All

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Posted November 04 2003 - 12:54 PM

I think it's misleading to tell Allen that he can't get an 8.1 channel receiver based on the contention that the format doesn't exist. Both the RXV-3300 and RX-Z1 are 8.1 channel receivers. Likewise, the new RX-Z9 is a 9.1 channel receiver. Granted, Yamaha's extra channels are not discrete, but neither are all the channels on any 7.1 channel receiver. Would anyone argue that it is not possible to get a 7.1 channel receiver? For the vast majority of DVDs, the sixth channel is matrix rather than discrete on any home theater system.

Allen,
You can't get 8.1 channels without getting either an RXV-3300 or RX-Z1. I think you may be thinking of speaker terminals on your current receiver rather than pre-outs. Most receivers have an A and B set of speaker outputs for main channels and some have two sets of rear speaker outputs because the second set is often used for a second room system.

Like some of the posts above, I don't prefer Yamaha's receivers over others and use Denon myself. The 8.1 function is more of a gimmick than a necessity. If you really love the Yamaha sound though and want no other kind of receiver, you can get the RXV-3300 for cheap and add an extra amp to it if you think it is necessary. However, the amp section from the RXV-3300 comes directly from the RX-V1, Yamaha's previous flagship receiver and has plenty of pow pow power.
Audio, ergo sum.

#15 of 88 OFFLINE   ReggieW

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Posted November 04 2003 - 01:00 PM

I would also recommend the new NAD T773. It is 110wpc x 7 and goes for $2000 or about $1600 street authorized (not sure though if the T773 is actually on the street yet). Don't be put off by the seemly low power rating when compared to other brands in the T773's price range, they (NAD) are very conservative with their power ratings as their internal amps are incredible (The T773 weighs 53lbs, the comparable Denon 3803 which is also 110 x 7 weighs 36 lbs.). It lacks some of the bells and whistles of the Denon's and Yamaha's but makes up for it where it counts.

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#16 of 88 OFFLINE   ChrisHeflen

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Posted November 04 2003 - 06:04 PM

Even though I still recommend seperates, like John G asked, "How big IS your room that you need all these speakers?

You might wanna check out this guy. I think it'll keep up power-wise with any receiver Flagship or not. It also does 9.1! You do need an external amp for the last two, but it has an 8 channel input too.

Check it out I'm sure you've heard of it.
http://downtownaudio...ulresechof.html

then check out a respectable review here...
http://www.hometheat....er-9-2003.html

#17 of 88 OFFLINE   DarrylM

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Posted November 05 2003 - 04:37 PM

Quote:
I think it's misleading to tell Allen that he can't get an 8.1 channel receiver based on the contention that the format doesn't exist. Would anyone argue that it is not possible to get a 7.1 channel receiver?

It's not the same thing, though. DTS-ES and DD EX titles were designed for six- or seven-channel playback. Even if the back surrounds use a matrix signal (which isn't strictly true with THX post-processing), the formats were meant to utilize one or two rear speakers by the guys who initially engineer the soundtracks.

The extra "front effects" channels in a Yamaha receiver, however, are not supported by DTS or DD formats. They represent a proprietary processing scheme created by Yahama to produce additional ambience during playback, which is not how the soundtracks were initially mastered.

Also, a discrete channel has the capability to deliver a unique signal, whether or not the DSP actually delivers one to it.

#18 of 88 OFFLINE   Rich Wenzel

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Posted November 06 2003 - 01:55 AM

the z-1, is under $2000 online and will probably go lower when the z-9 ships...

Yamaha makes fine pieces of equipment and i know some people who really like the front effects channels (what you are referring to 8.1, or some cases its called 9.1)...

If it were my money, I would be looking at the adcom, rotel, and NAD separates I could get for the money...leaning towards Rotel cause they seem to be the only one of those 3 companies that actively provides updates for its pieces, though the other 2 companies are very good as well...

if you want to stay with a receiver, in the $2.5k, I would recommend looking at the Yamaha, the Marantz Sr-18EX, sr-19ex and sr9200, the denon 4803, and maybe if you are lucky to find a demoed sunfire ultimate receiver (they have their own version of 9.1).

Rich
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#19 of 88 OFFLINE   ChrisAG

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Posted November 06 2003 - 07:44 AM

If the Yamaha's front effects channels don't operate in full range (20Hz-20KHz), they can't realistically be considered in that 8.1 or 9.1 equation...

#20 of 88 OFFLINE   Rich Wenzel

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Posted November 06 2003 - 09:27 AM

Chris,

how many speakers do you have that are full range speakers?

I have powered woofers on my fronts and surrounds and mine dont go down to 20hz...

I understand your point, and agree in principal, but in practice, does it matter if they go that low?

Rich
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